Is our parenting technique too gentle?!

[GJD23000]

I need a bit of advice. My husband and I are starting to think we are too gentle on our 6 year old DD. I absolutely wouldn’t class us as ‘gentle parents’ but we are definitely on the gentler side of strict, we only have the one so I would say we are pretty relaxed with her. We are incredibly flexible in our jobs, which we love, but it also means we can be at her beck and call and are almost ‘too’ available for her. I ask now because her behaviour, especially around bedtime, has been getting increasingly bad - tonight she has screamed at us for over an hour, calling us horrible names and being very rude. She refuses to go to bed without us going to bed next door at the same time (we have on occasions done this when tired and watched some tv) Her attitude can sometimes be bad, quite rude and often she comes out with really mean things. Other times she is amazing, sooo funny, kind, loving and friendly but her ‘mean’ times seem to be increasing and I am wondering if we need to be stricter. You read the internet and it tells you all the horror stories of strict parenting but I’m starting to think the lack of it is leading to her disrespecting us….what are we doing wrong?! Help!

You have been far to gentle. You can gentle parent and have boundaries. Your DD behaves terribly towards you at times and you allow her to. Start installing consequences and take control. Kids don't feel safe if parents have no boundaries so please set some. It sounds like you are doing permissive parenting rather than gentle parenting.

It could be either really, that you’re too permissive or that it’s just the way she is at the moment and she needs something different. She may be starting to show signs of anxiety, or ND.

fwiw both my children have been difficult to get to sleep and we have been extremely permissible-including sleeping in their beds, getting in with them and staying in the room whilst they get off to sleep- indeed my H still sits next to my 10YOa bed until she goes to sleep.

neither of them have tantrums or speak to us like that

Speak to her when she's calm, tell her that if she screams at you or says mean things you will leave her on her own. Explain to her that people (including you) do not like being screamed at/called names and that you will not be putting up with it any longer. Also ask her how she would feel if you called her x (use one of the names she has called you) and tell her to really think about it. Tell her that's how she's making you feel every time and it will not be allowed to continue.

You can't allow her to scream at you and have absolutely no response/consequence for it. What are you teaching her there? That she can abuse the people who love her? Nip it in the bud before she's old enough for this to become a problem out of your control.

But screaming abuse at someone should get a reaction, a very negative reaction.

@Tuttifrutticutiepie yes of course she goes asleep-because she’s got exactly what she wants! Her parents at her beck and call, sitting with her while she sleeps. Hardly a punishment is it!

You sit in her room? She's 6, not 2! You doing that is showing her she can get what she wants through, quits frankly, awful behaviour. No parent on this planet should be giving into a child verbally abusing them. What happens when she starts doing it to her teachers at school? What she is doing is far from ok and the way you are dealing with it is also far from ok. You walk away and when she stops and apologises you go back in and not a second before.

Why do you sit in her room in the corner? She's 6!

You leave her. You put her back to bed if she gets out. Do not engage with her. rinse and repeat

It sounds like you're trying to be very caring parents and you really want to get the balance right. My grandma always used to say, 'if they don't respect you when they're small, they won't respect you when they're big'. It's a very simplistic statement with a lot of flaws, but ultimately, parents need to set themselves as the leaders of the family when kids are small, and this can be expressed in as kind a way as you like, so long as you hold the boundary and don't get sucked into using pleading language or not following through.

I am an authoritative parent; somewhere in between gentle parenting and strict. I think most thoughtful parents slot in there somewhere. I fill my children with love, praise, connection, warmth and acceptance but I do expect them to follow my instructions without too much of a pushback.

If any of my children, aged 6, continually screamed and shouted at me, they would have a lot of their privileges removed and would get a serious talking to and reminded who they are speaking to. I wouldn't accept it, just as I wouldn't accept an adult speaking to me like that. I teach 6 year olds and honestly, they can handle having a toy/device/tv removed and they fully understand why.

If my child was screaming hurtful things at me, I'd calmly reassure them, tell them that you want them to stop using those words and explain that if it continues, they will get x consequence. If they continue doing shouting, remove what you threatened to do. If they behave themselves the following night, reward them and tell them that if they value x toy, they need to stay in bed and stop shouting to get her own way.

Every single time they behave like this at night, follow it up with a negative consequence. Every single time they do well, reward it the next day.
Don't over explain, don't get tucked into negotiations or 'please just go to sleep for mummy' type of weak language. Go in strong. 'I don't like the way you're speaking to me and I want you to stop now.' Don't cave in. Backlash always gets worse before it gets better when children get their first real taste of discipline after not having had much before hand.

Babies and toddlers I can understand, but at 6 your daughter does need a much firmer approach. I'm sure you will do a great job and you sound like a lovely mum with the best intentions.

When she gets like this she literally leaves her room and follows us downstairs… won’t stay in bed so we’ve found that’s the best way to make her stay in bed and eventually fall asleep.

There are repercussions to her being like this, taking treats away etc. Tonight I have cancelled a sleepover she was meant to have on Tuesday because of how she’s acted.

That's not necessary. By very negative reaction, you are referring to punishment. But the child is already very upset and stressed. I don't think punishment is necessary or helpful. Certainly not before taking the much easier, less risky route of just laying out expectations and sticking to them consistently. It's not necessary to be unpleasant to children to get them to meet your expectations.

This.
You need to parent her properly.

This!

Thank you for your advice, it’s really helpful and really kind of you to say, I try! 🥹

Let’s not kid ourselves…

You have not tried absolutely everything.

I don’t shout at my kids really but my dd who is just 3 knows when I mean business,

What is the consequence for her frankly appalling behaviour right now?
Answer: Nothing

When she is calm I’d get out/ make a behaviour board with consequences let her know how bedtimes are going to look and then as parents I’d get on with it.
the names the screaming etc would all result in media blackouts and no treats
no tv, no phones, no tablets, no cartoons.
And stick to it.
no treats at all - meals only.
toy taken away… whatever it is.

I don’t go into any big chat or get angry or explain. At 3 my dd knows when she’s done something wrong she doesn’t need me to explain it.

you are going to have a ropey week or two enforcing this but that’s on you for letting this nonsense start up in the first place.

If you have to physically move her to her bedroom close the door so be it.

basically ensures the kicking / screaming / tantrums have consequences and she is clear it’s a No from both of you.

you are doing your child no favours at all of you don’t tackle this and your other problem areas (and if this is your daily bedtime I promise there are other problem areas)

The theory of ignoring unwanted behaviour has done so much damage to helping children to manage their emotions and behaviour. There should be only very, very few, carefully selected times when ignoring a child's behaviour is the most effective strategy. Child deserve to be taught, explicitly, what is unacceptable. Adults think that the child is learning, to their dismay, that their behaviour won't get a response. The children are learning, to their delight, that they can get away with whatever they like. It doesn't work.

I think I'm gentle with my kids but jeepers, I wouldn't allow that! Children who don't have enough boundaries set for them do not feel safe. Parents need to be leaders.

For me, I usually try to diffuse my kids attitudes with humour. I use Roald Dahl-esque language like "oh look its a grizzly grunion" and tickle them or do something weird like put a tomato on my nose, but your daughter might think you've gone a bit daft if you suddenly do that out of nowhere.

I would tell them their behaviour is unacceptable and just walk away if they yell at me. Mine are 3 and 5.

Take her hand in yours - lead her back to her room - say a set phrase e.g. ‘time to sleep now’ pop her into bed and then walk from the room shutting the door behind.

the first night of doing this - you might have to repeat a few times as she is going to try her old repertoire of shouting at you to get attention - but if you are gentle, firm and consistent with your actions and words the message that it is bedtime will sink in.

don’t excuse this behaviour - it will only get worse . You need to get on top of it - that doesn’t mean harsh punishments but it does mean setting out the boundaries and letting her know what you expect and that you mean business.

You are the parent here. At 6 this behaviour is relatively easy to modify - think what she will be like at 16 if she is is used to ruling the roost and getting her own way and screaming obscenities at you.

Doesn’t bear thinking about - Sort it now or you will seriously live to regret it.

Perhaps she has developed a fear of being on her own in the dark and fighting you is the only way she feels she can tell you. Some children have big imaginations and can get really scared. But having said that the abuse needs to stop

True. My children hate the dark so they have a night light and we leave the door open. I'm happy to pop in and out on nights they're feeling a bit wobbly, maybe even get in for a snuggle, but I do go and they don't ever shout at me.

Sorry not RTFT but what consequences do people tend to give for name calling? My DS (4) doesn’t verbally abuse us as such but is definitely in a name calling phase and struggling to know how to deal with it. Lots of people on this thread saying it just wouldn’t happen in their house.

What sort of names and how recently did your child turn 4?

And under what circumstances does he call you names?

She doesn’t have a tablet, she rarely watches TV and she never gets our phones so can’t really take them away.

We’ve taken away her Alexa away before, not allowed treats like icecream etc…this time we cancelled her sleepover.

Sounds like she has SEN to be honest. It’s not normal for a 6 year old to be screaming abuse at you.

I am a ‘gentle parent’ of an only and this sounds a trillion miles away from a normal situation

I don't think I'm making myself clear. To be clearer:

1. Set out your expectations. This is your bedtime, we are your parents, and it is our job to make sure you go to bed on time so that you get enough rest. We decide when your bedtime is. I know that that is a change for you and you don't like it but that is our decision and it isn't up for debate. X time is when we will go up your room and X time is when we need you to lie quietly in bed and we will switch the light off. We can sit in your room with you.

2. When she predictably screams and shouts abuse, because that is what she's used to, and because she thinks you might change your mind about bedtime; you remain calm, you don't react with punishment, threats or escalation. You more or less don't give fuel to the fire. The impression I had from the OP is that when they make it clear they aren't listening to the abuse or engaging with it; DD gives up and goes to sleep quite quickly. That seems fine. If they are consistent she will soon stop the unwanted behaviour. Then they can work on withdrawing from the room by going back to step one and resetting expectations (eg "Just Daddy at bedtime" "Just sitting in your room for 5 minutes") - whatever until they reach a set up they're happy with.

If behaviour crosses a line, I think it's fine to draw your boundary. "Your shouting is hurting my ears so I'm going to move away until you can be less noisy". "No, it is your bedtime and you cannot come downstairs" (lift the child back to bed). "I will not let you hit me" (hold arms until they stop trying to hit). This can be pretty tedious but has the benefit of being calm, clear, immediate, proportionate, and the child knows what they need to do to de-escalate the decision without losing face, rather than feeling trapped and even more upset by an arbitrary punishment. As soon as they de escalate, you return to the previous state (returning into the room, letting go of the arms, whatever it may be) - so that the direction the child prefers, and the direction you prefer, end up aligned. And you stick to the expectations you set. At no point do you have to stop being warm and sympathetic to the child. But you can still be very clear with your boundaries and the immediate consequences of breaking them. If consistent then the unwanted behaviour will not last because as soon as they understand you are sticking with it they'll stop pushing.