Would Muslims be horrified if they really knew what halal slaughter involved?

[HangryBrickShark]

PLEASE DO NOT READ IF EASILY UPSET - REFERENCES TO ANIMAL SLAUGHTER

First of all I want to make it clear I am not being racist or am not racist in any way, shape or form, but this is a question I have often pondered for many years now.

My friends ex husband worked at a halal meat abbatoir and although he'd been a slaughterman for many years prior to this, it was using the traditional pre-stunning method prior to slaughter. I guess it's one of those less desirable jobs but it's one of those 'someone has to do it' jobs.
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He lasted a few days before quitting his job at this halal place, deeply distressed at what he witnessed, certainly distressed enough to be sobbing in my friends arms whilst he told her about it. I'll spare you the ghastly details but he witnessed a tremendous amount of suffering whilst working there and did report his findings to the local authority. They said that when they carried out a visit their findings were that the process was being carried out correctly.

The animals at some halal abbatoirs are not pre stunned before slaughter and scientists have proven how unethical and cruel the method of cutting the carotid artery on an animal actually is, with some animals, in particular young calves who have a very good supply of nerves and blood vessels on the top of their necks. This prolongs their consciousness and can cause terrible suffering and it can take a couple of minutes for them to die whilst suspended by a back leg in the air after the cut is made whilst they bleed to death. Obviously the animal is beyond terrified and will struggle. Sometimes cows are put in a contraption that lifts their chin in order to make the cut and turned upside down. I have watched a video of both methods and it is very obvious the animals are conscious for many seconds to a minute or more, you can see their terror, they are not reflexes. This is as an offering to Allah as it states (possibly in the Quaran) that animals have to be offered alive when slaughtered. More and more halal abbatoirs are now pre stunning but there are still many that don't which represent a great many. In 2018 48% of all halal slaughter was not prestunned. 24,000 cattle in 2022 were not prestunned and 2.7million sheep (which represents a horrific 22% of all animals slaughtered in the UK) were not prestunned. The figure for chickens is even worse with 22 million not stunned.

I have read extensive research about both methods because I like a lot of other peoplecannot understand why our government allows religious slaughter when it causes so much suffering and I, like many others try to avoid the halal mark on shop bought food and never eat meat from a restaurant if I know it is serving halal food.

I have friends/work colleagues who are Muslims and I do not regard them any different from myself in any way other than I would never share a meal with them for these reasons.

Just for reference I am a meat eater and try to buy ethically sourced meat from local butchers as well as the supermarket red tractor scheme meat.

We weren't white enough 80 years ago but we're all white now. Did you not get the memo?

Of course they know. And they don’t care.

What wasn’t factual about anything the OP said?

No like I've said three times also. (Feel like a parrot now) any animal that is not rendered unconscious first will feel terror strung upside down whilst it suffocates on its blood.

Would you rather have a bolt to the head that you literally don't have the time to process the pain before your rendered unconscious before having your throat cut. Or would you rather flap around wildly whilst your body weight is strung by one leg, you choke on your blood, you get the most horrific headache (that's exsanguination for you) and you are in utter terror, despair and horror.

I know which I'd choose. Anyone doubting what I am saying only has to watch a video if the process and you will see quite clearly what I'm talking about although I'd advise you not to.

It's really odd how in the UK non stun slaughter is always linked to Muslims and the Jewish/Kosher element is always ignored - go look out screaming Daily Mail headlines etc
So to be clear you can have Halal meat that is stunned. New Zealand has banned non stun slaughter and sell Halal meat.

Non stun slaughter is ILLEGAL in the UK except for religious exemptions.
The British Veterinary Association absolutely opposes it and think it should be totally banned
The public would like for meat to be labelled as non stun but guess what that was opposed by for example Jewish groups.
It's a ridiculous situation and non stun slaughter should be completely banned
BVA - Welfare at slaughter campaign

For the poster who says the general population do not eat Kosher meat. That is simply not true .
The general public do not support non stun and are left in a situation where they are unwittingly eating meat which is for them illegally and cruelly slaughtered

" But Defra’s latest report, based on a Food Standards Agency survey of abattoirs, showed that 51% of cattle and 43% of sheep slaughtered for kosher markets, were rejected in 2021-22.
The rejected meat was then sold as halal or to the wider public.
The figures collated in March 2022 also reveal a marked increase in rejection levels compared with the previous survey in 2018, when just 15% of cattle and 23% of sheep which had been slaughtered while conscious, were sold on to wider public markets."

Better labelling needed as kosher meat reaches non-kosher markets - Farmers Weekly

Don't you think 'religious slaughter' is morally wrong? Surely it is if it causes unnecessary suffering.

I think all slaughter of animals is morally wrong.

If you have a problem with just halal and not the meat industry in general. Then your problem isn’t ethics it’s anti Muslim sentiment.

halal meat being slaughtered as you describe is a byproduct of capitalism. Just like the entire meat industry is. It’s to deliver cheap meat to the masses, and lots of it, cut cost where they can and maximise profits. As a result the welfare of the animals will inevitably suffer, as will frankly the quality of the meat.

the essence of halal farming and slaughter is to treat the animals with dignity from the moment of its birth to the moment of its death, recognising the sacrifice and not to over consume meat. BUT capitalism will stretch the veil of halal so thin in order to maximise profit and still stamp the halal sign.

islamically the animal must be treated with dignity and respect, fed good food left to roam , have a safe warm place to rest. At its death, it should be kept calm and have no idea what’s to happen, it shouldn’t see other animals slaughtered, and the animal shouldn’t suffer. It should be individually taken, calmed read the prayer and then its throat quickly slit.

i understand slitting the throat is graphic, but pre industrialisation that was the quickest and kindest way to slaughter an animal.

Post supercessionism and the judeo Christian alliance ;)

There are so many similar ritual & practices between Muslim & Jewish that are from ancient times …. Before refrigeration, running water, hygiene standards.
The requirement of killing animal while it is alive and conscious probably started to prevent people from butcher a sick animal ‘ spreading disease. Same as not eating pork was because omnivores often carry worms or parasites in the meat where it is less likely in grazing animals.

Not to mention cultural norms in more fundamental groups - separation of men & women in worship, head covering, Modest clothing etc etc etc

And facts for you OP .

The legal exemption is to provide Halal and Kosher meat, for the Muslim and Jewish communities, respectively.

Around 88% of animals slaughtered in the UK for Halal are stunned first

All animals slaughtered under the Shechita (for Kosher) are non-stunned

Ban Non-stun Slaughter | Campaign | RSPCA - RSPCA - rspca.org.uk

That sounds reasonable, though I'd skip the prayer. All that does is fool the human slaughterer into feeling better about the killing.

Point I was making is that abattoirs are horrible cruel places

the animas suffer regardless if they are stunned or not

not knowing too much is why so many of us still eat meat

Hope you’re a vegan then.
Most ppl are happy to eat meat killed with normal welfare standards. I only eat high welfare/ organic meat.

well that’s not strictly true, aside from the ‘depends what you believe fact’

theres the point of honouring the animal, acknowledging the sacrifice etc

but there is also something calming about certain tones, frequencies and melodies. Quran recitation are very melodic and have proven beneficial as part of faith healing.

but my larger point was there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, we all know this. this thread is just another Muslim bashing one. We were due for one… it’s been a few weeks 😏

Christ, another pop at Muslims thread.
You agree that Kosher slaughter is also horrendous, but don't mention it in the original post.
If you knew about abbatoirs, your cosy view of animals being properlu stunned before slaughter would be draing as fast as the animal blood from their severed arteries.
And there are plenty of farmers across the world who will slaughter a sheep in a field to fill their freezer.

Cracks me up that you honestly think if you were hung upside down from a 'beam' and had your throat cut with a 'sharp blade' to pour below you that you wouldn't find that you would honestly not find 'anything cruel about it'.

Most ppl are happy to eat meat killed with normal welfare standards.

Not from my experience. Fast food joints do a booming business and cheap chicken flies off the supermarket shelves. I've never known anyone to enquire before ordering a meal about the welfare of the animals used.

Apparently everyone on this thread only eats happy animals.

It doesn't ever take long for some one to go but, but, but what about X y and z and why aren't you outraged about that. Why does op need to list every cruel practice?

I eat meat - the animal has to die one way or another. Get over it.

Animal welfare seems to be ignored in the UK and other Western Countries. It seems fine to serve meat where animals are bled to death via a knife to the neck. Knife crime but to animals. Some abattoirs say they do stun despite this painful death but it isn't sufficient from my observations, to dull the pain with this bleeding practice it's very inefficient as they die a long and painful death unnecessarily. Where's RSPC in all of this?

I would recommend asking ANY school before joining, what their menu is, and then ask the origin, you learn a lot about their animal welfare concerns and don't assume what they were 10 years ago is what they are now, they can't lie about it however, they don't always show on the menus the origin of the meat and fondly enough, won't advertise on websites. It's surprising how many LONDON schools, Anglican, Muslim, TOP independent schools, etc that will serve halal only meals some with huge school fees. Many of these schools are serving halal only, even through Ramadan when any practising religious person would be assumed to be fasting, expected not to be eating, so during this period, in the UK supposedly a secular society, even then no other meat options are offered. From my experience despite low number of pupils requesting halal, it becomes the norm for the whole school population and the only meat option. Please don't start with me going to vegan only or vegetarian, that also is not a choice for all, especially growing kids who need protein. Sure if you eat enough vegetarian protein for all meals you'll meet your target but these are specific cultures again who know how to eat properly on this diet.

Halal meat if blessed by an Iman, Kosher meat blessed by Rabbi, this all adds to the costs of the abattoir, and why would a parent want to pay for their child who is non-religious, or other religion contribute to religious practises that they have nothing in common with? Why would they want to contribute to paying fees that are in my option against the welfare of animals. London schools, state and independent from my experience ignore the wishes of parents. Pork has become almost non-existent on school menus. Apparently the Mayor of London allows quicker clearance/certification or something like that for halal abattoir meats than others and hence, there is no choice for London based schools. Can anyone shed any light and facts on my experiences and observations?

So why did your title only refer to Muslims why not Would Muslims and Jews be....

It’s just easier to say that you don’t like Muslims rather than rabbit on about how barbaric halal is and the (fictional) financial impact on local authorities and parents

yes the chicken nugget, turkey dinosaur industry (which is largely the stuff you get in schools) is a utopia of ethical treatment of animals.

for meat to be halal it just needs to be killed by a Muslim. You don’t need an imam. Some of these ‘halal’ abattoirs have stretched the concept so thin they just have a tape playing the basmallah. I’m pretty sure that’s pretty cost neutral v other means of slaughter.

Just curious as to why you seem to think that most Muslims are not aware what halal slaughter involves? That is exactly what your title and main question imply.

Regardless of the perceived right & wrongs of this practice, what on earth gives you the impression that you somehow know more about this than “they”
do? Massively patronising of you, tbh. And, as others have mentioned, the hypocrisy and judgement in your post, particularly as you’re a meat eater, is just bizarre. Patronising and hypocritical. Nice combo. And you justifying your meat eating when mentioned and questioned is just insane. And no, I’m actually neither Muslim or veggie/en, although I actually eat little in the way of meat ( just generally prefer and end up eating a more plant based diet without even giving it much of a thought), but I’d certainly not think I was morally superior to people who eat more meat than I do and nor would I try justifying the reasons I do eat some meat and am not an actual veggie.

Maybe become at least a vegetarian, or better yet a vegan, if animal suffering is actually more important to you than your perceived moral superiority. Do something about animal slaughter full stop, if you’re actually that bothered. Hypocritical, Judgemental people are just awful. Your faux naivety, especially regarding your (several) “I’m not racist (…but)” comments, I’d imagine isn’t really fooling many people, as actual non-racists don’t generally need - or feel the need - to keep pointing it out.