Would Muslims be horrified if they really knew what halal slaughter involved?

[HangryBrickShark]

PLEASE DO NOT READ IF EASILY UPSET - REFERENCES TO ANIMAL SLAUGHTER

First of all I want to make it clear I am not being racist or am not racist in any way, shape or form, but this is a question I have often pondered for many years now.

My friends ex husband worked at a halal meat abbatoir and although he'd been a slaughterman for many years prior to this, it was using the traditional pre-stunning method prior to slaughter. I guess it's one of those less desirable jobs but it's one of those 'someone has to do it' jobs.
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He lasted a few days before quitting his job at this halal place, deeply distressed at what he witnessed, certainly distressed enough to be sobbing in my friends arms whilst he told her about it. I'll spare you the ghastly details but he witnessed a tremendous amount of suffering whilst working there and did report his findings to the local authority. They said that when they carried out a visit their findings were that the process was being carried out correctly.

The animals at some halal abbatoirs are not pre stunned before slaughter and scientists have proven how unethical and cruel the method of cutting the carotid artery on an animal actually is, with some animals, in particular young calves who have a very good supply of nerves and blood vessels on the top of their necks. This prolongs their consciousness and can cause terrible suffering and it can take a couple of minutes for them to die whilst suspended by a back leg in the air after the cut is made whilst they bleed to death. Obviously the animal is beyond terrified and will struggle. Sometimes cows are put in a contraption that lifts their chin in order to make the cut and turned upside down. I have watched a video of both methods and it is very obvious the animals are conscious for many seconds to a minute or more, you can see their terror, they are not reflexes. This is as an offering to Allah as it states (possibly in the Quaran) that animals have to be offered alive when slaughtered. More and more halal abbatoirs are now pre stunning but there are still many that don't which represent a great many. In 2018 48% of all halal slaughter was not prestunned. 24,000 cattle in 2022 were not prestunned and 2.7million sheep (which represents a horrific 22% of all animals slaughtered in the UK) were not prestunned. The figure for chickens is even worse with 22 million not stunned.

I have read extensive research about both methods because I like a lot of other peoplecannot understand why our government allows religious slaughter when it causes so much suffering and I, like many others try to avoid the halal mark on shop bought food and never eat meat from a restaurant if I know it is serving halal food.

I have friends/work colleagues who are Muslims and I do not regard them any different from myself in any way other than I would never share a meal with them for these reasons.

Just for reference I am a meat eater and try to buy ethically sourced meat from local butchers as well as the supermarket red tractor scheme meat.

"I'm not racist but ..."

I agree that religious animal slaughter has no place in a supposedly progressive, Western country. However, as someone who hasn't touched meat since I was a teenager (a long time ago!), I don't understand some of the outrage here.

Slaughter is slaughter, at the end of the day. One is merely slightly more grim that another and sorry, but meat eaters don't get to occupy the moral high ground on this one.

That would be because it’s scandalous abuse, and people care

You're vegan I take it.

And because it causes a massive bunfight.

The majority of halal animals are stunned in the UK. The whole point of halal is that the animals are supposed to be raised with higher welfare standards. They are meant have a life without pain and suffering. The wellbeing of the animal is paramount.
Have you heard about factory farming methods (non-halal) in the UK? Many animals live a completely miserable life so you can eat meat.
I read plenty of horror stories from non-halal abbatoirs. Such as some "high welfare" geese. I saw videos of the slaughter house. Workers were picking them up by the heads and swinging them around by their necks, over and over again. I've seen videos of worker torturing pigs for a laugh before their slaughter. It's why I don't eat meat.
I don't think anyone should feel superior for not eating halal.
If you care about animal welfare, don't eat meat. Simple as that.

I’m not sure why you’re wondering what Muslims think, my understanding is that the majority of meat is slaughtered this way in the UK.

A better question would be to ask why the UK is allowing a minority religion (Muslims make up 6.5% of the population) to influence how our meat is slaughtered. We also need to ask
why we are letting religious beliefs seep into everyday elements of life in the UK although some groups seem to have a much tighter grip on this.

Interesting thread title
Almost inflamatory one could say

OP. Are you working on the assumption that Muslims are ignorant of slaughter methods? If so have you sources to provide proof of his?

Keep stirring the pot OP.

Are you really anti-animal cruelty? or just anti-Muslim?

If the first, I would expect you to be vegan, or at least to only ever eat organic, free-range or grass-fed meat, and to be fully informed about 'normal' or non-halal non-kosher meat industry practices.

Yeah and milk comes from pregnant animals, or animals that have just given birth
Meat comes from slaughtered animals it doesn't matter how it's done, it's still mass slaughter
Eggs come from chickens often forced to over produce

The only answer is to become vegan because nobody does it 'right'. It's all horrific if you stop and think about it.

OP won't come back, it was just a quick stir.

I saw a video on this practice once and vow never to eat halal meat, although it still won't stop them from producing it. I still eat normal meat.

In my opinion, and as other posters have alluded, it's intensive farming that is the issue, not the religious aspect.

Done properly, halal slaughter needn't be cruel.

I grew up in one of the Gulf Emirates - my Dad worked in construction for an Arab company and it was customary for the firm to give the men a sheep or a goat for Eid or at the end of a good project.

The unfortunate beast was bound, suspended from a beam and after the site foreman, Saddiq Ullah had recited the shahada - the declaration of faith, he slit the animal's throat with a long, very sharp knife. The blood drained away into a channel that Saddiq had dug in the sand.

There was nothing cruel or barbaric about the slaughter - the pupils were always dilated long before the blood stopped dripping; compare this to live chickens on a conveyor belt having their heads sawn off with or without the shahada playing on a continuous loop and tell me whether it is religion or intensive production methods that are the issue.

My late husband had a summer job in an abattoir in the north of Scotland. He told me that it wasn't that unusual for the stun gun to miss an animal. That would have been the 1970s.

Yes, he continued to eat meat but he did find some aspects of the job distressing.

You would hope they don't realise what it involves. It shouldn't be allowed to happen in this country.

This attitude strikes me as really odd, though I know it's widespread. You can't seriously think meat eaters want animals to suffer?

I eat dead animals, so of course you think I'm horrible. I'm not eating them out of some gory sadism, though, I want them to live and die as peacefully as possible. (Also, happy livestock tastes better!)

66% of all halal meat is stunned

so I guess you mean the 34% that isn’t and include kosher meat as well?

obviously all other animals killed for their meat, pelts ets are cuddled to death

I doubt there’s many, if any Muslims, who don’t know what Halal slaughter involves given that Muslims grow up knowing how to slaughter their animals for food.

But more to the point - why are you concentrating on Islam when Judaism uses exactly the same method of slaughter?

Is it the fact Eid is just around the corner that’s prompted you to pick a particular group out to the exception of all others.

DH worked in a chicken factory at Uni
It was not a Halal one and he still talks about it with absolute disgust

As another poster said, done correctly, Halal slaughter needn't be cruel.

There's just been a huge thing about a halal abbatoir near me, there are multiple news articles about it if you Google Arley abbatoir.
Undercover cameras were placed in the abbatoir and revealed all sorts of cruel behaviour. An inspector was actually In on one occasion, she was filmed witnessing the cruelty and walking away then passing her report with no action or concerns.

We have quite a large Muslim community around here and they are just as outraged by the treatment of the animals as the people who aren't Muslim are. Something like this can stir up all sorts of racial hate when a handful of people tarnish everyone with the same brush. Unfortunately for our local Muslim community, the local abbatoir news came about just as an EDL protest came to town 😩

Normal meat - you mean animals kept in factory conditions then brutally killed?

I'd have thought anyone purporting to care about aninal welfare would be horrified if they really knew the suffering that goes on before an animal or its products ends up on their plate. However, what tends to be the case is that they either dont care, minimise it, dismiss it as vegan propaganda, tell themselves its sad but a necessary evil because they need it, apply a heavy dose of cognitive dissonance, or point the finger at someone doing a worse thing.
Unless you're vegan OP, I'd honestly get your own house in order before you criticise others. You can't change other people's lawful behaviour, but you can make sure you're not contributing to animal suffering yourself.

If you’re a meat eater, or indeed have any animal products in the house (e.g. down jackets, pillows, leather, angora etc) I’d maybe climb down off your high horse. Not to mention cleaning products and cosmetics. You are very likely to be contributing to animal cruelty, unfortunately. It’s sad how endemic it is in our society. Sadly not solely due to halal slaughter methods.