Would Muslims be horrified if they really knew what halal slaughter involved?

[HangryBrickShark]

PLEASE DO NOT READ IF EASILY UPSET - REFERENCES TO ANIMAL SLAUGHTER

First of all I want to make it clear I am not being racist or am not racist in any way, shape or form, but this is a question I have often pondered for many years now.

My friends ex husband worked at a halal meat abbatoir and although he'd been a slaughterman for many years prior to this, it was using the traditional pre-stunning method prior to slaughter. I guess it's one of those less desirable jobs but it's one of those 'someone has to do it' jobs.
.
He lasted a few days before quitting his job at this halal place, deeply distressed at what he witnessed, certainly distressed enough to be sobbing in my friends arms whilst he told her about it. I'll spare you the ghastly details but he witnessed a tremendous amount of suffering whilst working there and did report his findings to the local authority. They said that when they carried out a visit their findings were that the process was being carried out correctly.

The animals at some halal abbatoirs are not pre stunned before slaughter and scientists have proven how unethical and cruel the method of cutting the carotid artery on an animal actually is, with some animals, in particular young calves who have a very good supply of nerves and blood vessels on the top of their necks. This prolongs their consciousness and can cause terrible suffering and it can take a couple of minutes for them to die whilst suspended by a back leg in the air after the cut is made whilst they bleed to death. Obviously the animal is beyond terrified and will struggle. Sometimes cows are put in a contraption that lifts their chin in order to make the cut and turned upside down. I have watched a video of both methods and it is very obvious the animals are conscious for many seconds to a minute or more, you can see their terror, they are not reflexes. This is as an offering to Allah as it states (possibly in the Quaran) that animals have to be offered alive when slaughtered. More and more halal abbatoirs are now pre stunning but there are still many that don't which represent a great many. In 2018 48% of all halal slaughter was not prestunned. 24,000 cattle in 2022 were not prestunned and 2.7million sheep (which represents a horrific 22% of all animals slaughtered in the UK) were not prestunned. The figure for chickens is even worse with 22 million not stunned.

I have read extensive research about both methods because I like a lot of other peoplecannot understand why our government allows religious slaughter when it causes so much suffering and I, like many others try to avoid the halal mark on shop bought food and never eat meat from a restaurant if I know it is serving halal food.

I have friends/work colleagues who are Muslims and I do not regard them any different from myself in any way other than I would never share a meal with them for these reasons.

Just for reference I am a meat eater and try to buy ethically sourced meat from local butchers as well as the supermarket red tractor scheme meat.

I genuinely LOL’d at this. I actually have his voice in his head.

Muslim here, we are taught that animals should not sense any fear when being slaughtered and they should also not see any other animals being slaughtered before their turn ( so is should be done away from other animals) The prayer also combined with the petting before the act is supposed to be calming and a fast method is advised (non-use of dull equipment etc.)

Of course, meat is mass produced and most butchers don't slaughter the animals one by one in a calm environment whether they are being stunned or not / halal or non halal.

In practice the meat industry is not a pretty scene regardless of whether it is halal or not.

I actually have someone in my family, a practicing Muslim who is vegan and has been for a long time due to the treatment of animals in the meat industry.

Whether others consume meat, is their choice really, however I understand in your last paragraph you mentioned you try to eat "ethically sourced meat" - if we really want to consider the welfare of animals, there is no such thing as ethically sourced meat as the killing itself is simply unethical.

So on the that basis, how would you explain your meat consumption to someone who is vegan, or better yet a pescatarian?

I genuinely LOL’d at this. I actually have his voice in my head.

😁

Well as long as they don't use Halal methods to kill them first I assume OP thinks its ok

This ⬆️

😂

I think most meat eaters are fairly ignorant about slaughterhouse welfare tbh.

Personally, I don't really care. I eat those animals. The way they are slaughtered isn't important to me.

I voted wrong, YANBU OP

Sorry, but you’re wrong. Suffering makes meat non-kosher. The animal’s vagus nerve must be severed in one go, which causes loss of consciousness in a matter of a couple of seconds. Kosher is a LOT more strict than halal, which is why kosher meat is a lot more expensive. I’m an Orthodox Jew and we eat meat once a week because of the cost.

I’d argue that if you’ve got scruples about the ethics of animal slaughter methods, then you shouldn’t be buying any mass produced meat at all - halal or not.
My uncle has been a butcher most of his life and before that he worked in an abattoir. I can’t imagine being lined up on a conveyor belt and taking between 200 and a 1000 volts to the dome is particularly pleasant.
Unless you’re raising your own animals and slaughtering them yourself, you’ve got to accept that supermarket meat isn’t particularly humane whatever the method. Or be a vegetarian 🤷🏻‍♀️
We live in the US and have friends and family who live rurally. Deer hunting season is massive for them and I’ve taken part in the hunt and the processing of the animal afterwards. Is it nice taking the life of a deer? No. But I’m much more comfortable eating an animal that I know died quickly and we took a lot of time and care to butcher it well. It’s also necessary in rural areas here to control the deer population. One adult deer can feed an average sized family for 6 months+.

Kosher is much more strict in terms of what is needed than halal. Muslims can eat kosher, Jews cannot eat halal. Any suffering immediately renders the meat non-kosher and therefore inedible. Kosher slaughter is quicker than any other method short of wringing a chicken’s neck.

Singling out halal slaughter is odd.

Do you think the animals that are stunned before slaughter have no idea what's going to happen? Do you have pets? Animals aren't stupid. Whether they feel pain or not before dying they're terrified, and that's not even considering the beforehand of being packed into trucks to be taken there in the first place. Or the way they are raised.

There may well be posters that say 'I only eat meat that is from the local farm' which is sent to a small abbatoir, done quickly, and transported with a few others. Fine - if youre going to pay someone to kill an animal for you then at least you're aware of it. Anyone else who buys free range or not from a supermarket, buys meat from takeaways, sandwich shops etc can pipe down. Your cognitive dissonance is alarming.

Singling out halal slaughter is odd.

Thats one word for it

Quite 🙄

Can Jews eat any meat that isn’t Kosher?

And who decides what’s painful of not? The very people who have a vested interest in saying no pain was felt by the animal? And what about the carcass of an animal that was declared non kosher after its death? What’s then done with the carcass?

No slaughter of an animal is whiter than white no matter which way it’s dressed up and deemed superior all other methods.

Yes deeply offended ! Will only be lindt bunnies from now on.

Probably because kosher food isn't widespread, is extremely niche and geographically concentrated and you'd actively have to look for it to buy it, whereas halal food is often the standard in supermarkets, restaurants and cafes. There are less than 300,000 Jews in the UK and over ten times the amount of Muslims, so halal meat is pretty much ubiquitous and there are therefore far more halal-catering abattoirs and far less animals slaughtered for kosher requirements, although neither methods are particularly humane, far more animals are killed for halal requirements than kosher.

People are much more likely to eat halal meat without knowing it than kosher meat or poultry because most supermarket meat is not prepared with religious Jewish dietary laws in mind (kosher), whereas a majority of supermarket meat will automatically be slaughtered according to halal requirements because there is a huge market for halal meat.

You’ve said exactly what I was trying to say but you’ve put it way more articulately than I did 🫣🫣🫣😂😂😂😂

i don't believe you. Find the last one.

I didn’t say or imply that anything was superior. If I implied it, I was wrong.

A Jew is someone who is born from a Jewish mother. That’s the only criteria. So a Jew can eat a bacon sandwich if they want to. They just aren’t following the religion called Judaism if they do. An observant Jew will not eat off a plate which has touched, at any time, a non-kosher food item. So an observant Jew would obviously not eat non-kosher meat.

No slaughter is entirely without pain. However, kosher slaughter uses a knife which is surgically sharp. If you’ve ever accidentally cut yourself with a very sharp knife, you will know that it can take a moment to even register pain. The slaughter man (known as a shochet) must sever all the vessels and nerves in the neck in one go, causing an instant massive drop in blood pressure to the brain. The animal passes out in a second or two. There cannot be any mistakes and the shochet is very highly trained. Every mistake, where the shochet fails to do this, means the whole animal is not kosher and cannot be eaten. A business which did this often would go under.

Kosher slaughter is also highly regulated. Every slaughterhouse must be inspected by a central body and must adhere to the same set of rules. This is not the same for halal.

I hope this has been informative. Eating animals is an ugly business, however you go about it.

Thanks for the information about kosher meat. I didn't know any of this. Very interesting.

One adult deer can feed an average sized family for 6 months+.

I don't disbelieve you but that is incredible. How large are american stags?

I love venison.

If you care about animal welfare, don't eat meat, simple.

Blaming it on one particular religion is unnecessary and misguided.

I don’t eat meat because I love the animals I’d be eating , my personal choice
I don’t want to force anyone to change their ways it’s what you choose to do , but I don’t understand why such cruelty is just overlooked and allowed to continue
breaks my heart tbh

Not Muslim but I have no doubt this is more race baiting nonsense. If you don’t want to eat Halal or Kosher don’t eat it. You’re naive if you think animals farmed for food fare much better in non Halal or kosher places.