Would Muslims be horrified if they really knew what halal slaughter involved?

[HangryBrickShark]

PLEASE DO NOT READ IF EASILY UPSET - REFERENCES TO ANIMAL SLAUGHTER

First of all I want to make it clear I am not being racist or am not racist in any way, shape or form, but this is a question I have often pondered for many years now.

My friends ex husband worked at a halal meat abbatoir and although he'd been a slaughterman for many years prior to this, it was using the traditional pre-stunning method prior to slaughter. I guess it's one of those less desirable jobs but it's one of those 'someone has to do it' jobs.
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He lasted a few days before quitting his job at this halal place, deeply distressed at what he witnessed, certainly distressed enough to be sobbing in my friends arms whilst he told her about it. I'll spare you the ghastly details but he witnessed a tremendous amount of suffering whilst working there and did report his findings to the local authority. They said that when they carried out a visit their findings were that the process was being carried out correctly.

The animals at some halal abbatoirs are not pre stunned before slaughter and scientists have proven how unethical and cruel the method of cutting the carotid artery on an animal actually is, with some animals, in particular young calves who have a very good supply of nerves and blood vessels on the top of their necks. This prolongs their consciousness and can cause terrible suffering and it can take a couple of minutes for them to die whilst suspended by a back leg in the air after the cut is made whilst they bleed to death. Obviously the animal is beyond terrified and will struggle. Sometimes cows are put in a contraption that lifts their chin in order to make the cut and turned upside down. I have watched a video of both methods and it is very obvious the animals are conscious for many seconds to a minute or more, you can see their terror, they are not reflexes. This is as an offering to Allah as it states (possibly in the Quaran) that animals have to be offered alive when slaughtered. More and more halal abbatoirs are now pre stunning but there are still many that don't which represent a great many. In 2018 48% of all halal slaughter was not prestunned. 24,000 cattle in 2022 were not prestunned and 2.7million sheep (which represents a horrific 22% of all animals slaughtered in the UK) were not prestunned. The figure for chickens is even worse with 22 million not stunned.

I have read extensive research about both methods because I like a lot of other peoplecannot understand why our government allows religious slaughter when it causes so much suffering and I, like many others try to avoid the halal mark on shop bought food and never eat meat from a restaurant if I know it is serving halal food.

I have friends/work colleagues who are Muslims and I do not regard them any different from myself in any way other than I would never share a meal with them for these reasons.

Just for reference I am a meat eater and try to buy ethically sourced meat from local butchers as well as the supermarket red tractor scheme meat.

Surely if it wasn’t anti-islam you would have looked at kosher and also started a thread about jewish people? Plus if you caree about animal welfare you wouldn’t be paying people to harm and kill animals on your behalf, yet it appears to be okay for you to do that.

It does come across as possibly Islamophobic when Eid is in a couple of days, especially as you didn’t mention kosher slaughter in the original post.

It went to the MN bin like most of these threads do.

I'm distraught that you don't believe me though.

You've ruined my whole weekend.

All meat and fish eaters should care how their food is produced.
But I don’t eat meat, but the rest of my family do.
I think everyone should eat less meat especially chicken. The poor things only live on average 42 days, permanently hungry, eating until they can’t stand up because they are growing far too fast. And they are top heavy.

This is interesting because the Islamic practice also requires the cutting of the vagus nerve as well as cutting the artery and that should result in the sudden blood loss and loss of consciousness that you describe. In that sense, traditional halal slaughter in terms of technical practice is the same as kosher (also rules of no suffering, animal shouldn't witness another animal being slaughtered etc).

Where it differs is the modern application of the rules. Factory farms and abatoirs that claim to be 'halal' can't possibly meet the animal welfare requirements that halal slaughter is supposed to ensure. I would go so far as to say the majority of halal food in the UK doesn't actually meet the true religious requirements, but are certificated anyway.

Jews are white now? This is news to us.

We are a tribe. Our identity pre-dates modern Western attempts to categorise people. Please leave us out of it - Jews are not a rhetorical device.

Logging off now for Shabbat. Peace everyone.

Yes, I agree. It was another poster who filled us in on the details about kosher.

halal slaughter isnt a religious sacrifice though

Would it be okay if they stun the woman first?

What you did is take the phrase "Muslims grow up knowing how to slaughter their animals for food" and draw the unwarranted conclusion that all Muslims are actually slaughtering animals. They could know how to because they are taught how it is done becuase it is significant to their religion, and I would presume that tis is what the poster meant.

I’m so sorry, I pressed YABU instead of YANBU. It’s appalling. I couldn’t read your entire post but what I did read sounds so barbaric that it should be illegal.

Would you like that? If a thread was created asking how Jewish people felt about kosher slaughter would you be accusing the author of being anti-Jewish and saying "well what about halal"?

I would assume the post was anti-Semitic, yes.

Does meat exist which is from animals who died gently in their sleep while laying on a bed of rose petals and being serenaded by choirs of fairies? Having lived long lives of luxury and contentment?

If you’re a cow or a sheep no life where you end up in a casserole seems ideal.

I think it's appalling that the usual rules about humane killing of animals (or any other law, for that matter) can be avoided for religious reasons. I do not buy halal meat.

No as the OP already has a halal thread, so it would be odd to pretend it didn’t already exist. But yes if the OP genuinely cared about animal welfare they should either be creating a kosher thread, or accepting that a single thread needs to be about all slaughter.

In an ideal world we probably wouldn't eat meat at all, for many reasons. But whether animals end up in a casserole or not doesn't really matter - we all die eventually. At least we can do our best to make the death as painless and as peaceful as possible.

I’ve been vegan for thirty years. You’re preaching to the converted. X

Animals should not suffer during slaughter.

I refuse to eat halal/kosher meat unless they can certify it has been stunned. It's barbaric. The blood is supposed to drain quickly but the animal clearly suffers.

I also refuse to eat foie gras because that's equally barbaric. The method is illegal in the UK but it's still imported!

I also think slaughter without stunning should also be made illegal in the UK.

I am a meat eater, just organic only and not a lot of it.

In the UK the majority of halal meat is stunned, however all animals who are slaughtered suffer, that may be when they are being killed, it may be when they have their legs or wings broken in tiny chicken crates, it may be the fear and dehydration as they’re driven long distances to be slaughtered. Male chicks are shredded alive, seems a fair amount of suffering there.

It is but you'll get a lot of whatabouttery

Clearly any method that causes unnecessary suffering should be banned if there is a better method available. However because most Muslims are not white you'll simply be accused of racism.

It's just another issue that because of our liberal western values we won't grasp the nettle on and say, sorry Muslims, your belief in your own particular sky fairy doesn't mean that animals should be killed in an unnecessarily brutal way.

Of course it's issues like this the the right pick up and weaponise and suddenly you end up with a Trump style figure

Certainly not at the farm that I buy my meat from!!!

There are regulations in place for animal slaughter so if you are aware of any particular cases that they suffer like you mention you should report them.

Around 88% of halal is now stunned in the UK but unless the meat is certified as being stunned I won't eat it. 88% isn't high enough. It needs to be 100%

And ban the import of foie gras too!

I get that.

Male chickens are macerated before they can even register pain the same as a gun shot will render a deer dead before it hits the ground.

But there is a caveat to that. The problem with both methods, being the bad shot from a distance and a heap of chick's at the same time in the macerator. I agree no slaughter method is infallible. But some ate more prolonged than others.

Whilst I respect people's religion and their right to express their views I don't think religious slaughter should be allowed. That's my personal opinion, but this is a discussion board and it's interesting to hear others viewpoints.

Absolutely. Sorry Op but this is very hypocritical. Have a look at transport of all ( halal and non halal) to slaughter for a start?
I think there are better ways but it costs a lot more. I do eat meat a couple of times a week from our village farm . It’s super expensive but I’d rather not have it than have the cheap stuff from Asda.