Would Muslims be horrified if they really knew what halal slaughter involved?

[HangryBrickShark]

PLEASE DO NOT READ IF EASILY UPSET - REFERENCES TO ANIMAL SLAUGHTER

First of all I want to make it clear I am not being racist or am not racist in any way, shape or form, but this is a question I have often pondered for many years now.

My friends ex husband worked at a halal meat abbatoir and although he'd been a slaughterman for many years prior to this, it was using the traditional pre-stunning method prior to slaughter. I guess it's one of those less desirable jobs but it's one of those 'someone has to do it' jobs.
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He lasted a few days before quitting his job at this halal place, deeply distressed at what he witnessed, certainly distressed enough to be sobbing in my friends arms whilst he told her about it. I'll spare you the ghastly details but he witnessed a tremendous amount of suffering whilst working there and did report his findings to the local authority. They said that when they carried out a visit their findings were that the process was being carried out correctly.

The animals at some halal abbatoirs are not pre stunned before slaughter and scientists have proven how unethical and cruel the method of cutting the carotid artery on an animal actually is, with some animals, in particular young calves who have a very good supply of nerves and blood vessels on the top of their necks. This prolongs their consciousness and can cause terrible suffering and it can take a couple of minutes for them to die whilst suspended by a back leg in the air after the cut is made whilst they bleed to death. Obviously the animal is beyond terrified and will struggle. Sometimes cows are put in a contraption that lifts their chin in order to make the cut and turned upside down. I have watched a video of both methods and it is very obvious the animals are conscious for many seconds to a minute or more, you can see their terror, they are not reflexes. This is as an offering to Allah as it states (possibly in the Quaran) that animals have to be offered alive when slaughtered. More and more halal abbatoirs are now pre stunning but there are still many that don't which represent a great many. In 2018 48% of all halal slaughter was not prestunned. 24,000 cattle in 2022 were not prestunned and 2.7million sheep (which represents a horrific 22% of all animals slaughtered in the UK) were not prestunned. The figure for chickens is even worse with 22 million not stunned.

I have read extensive research about both methods because I like a lot of other peoplecannot understand why our government allows religious slaughter when it causes so much suffering and I, like many others try to avoid the halal mark on shop bought food and never eat meat from a restaurant if I know it is serving halal food.

I have friends/work colleagues who are Muslims and I do not regard them any different from myself in any way other than I would never share a meal with them for these reasons.

Just for reference I am a meat eater and try to buy ethically sourced meat from local butchers as well as the supermarket red tractor scheme meat.

The above is all legal and standard in the UK, I would love to know which farm isn’t using crates to transport chicken, is providing food on the journey, water and perches.

I fail to understand how anyone who eats meat feels that they can take a high ground when it comes to the slaughter of animals in abattoirs.

I have already said there was no ulterior motive about only talking about halal. I just don't know much about kosher.

So you wouldn't accuse someone who started a thread about what Jewish people think about kosher slaughter as "anti-Jewish". How interesting.

This thread already discusses at length both halal and kosher slaughter. Kosher slaughter has been thoroughly explained.

If you go shopping for meat or poultry in any of the big supermarkets, none of the meat will be kosher unless you go to the kosher meat section because it is very niche because there is a tiny Jewish community and low demand for kosher food. In contrast, most meat and poultry is by default halal, even if you are non-Muslim, there are far more halal abattoirs and far more animals are slaughtered in accordance with halal because it is normally the standard meat bought by supermarkets, regardless of whether people want to eat it or not, it is almost always automatically halal because there is more demand for it. Perhaps that is why there is more of a focus on halal because it is produced in amounts an order of magnitude larger than kosher meat and anyone not wanting to eat kosher meat can do so by not buying kosher meat (which is not sold in most places), whereas anyone not wanting to buy halal meat would have to find a supermarket which doesn't automatically sell all meat as halal.

I agree, if you care about animals and animal welfare you wouldn’t pay someone to murder them on your behalf. You also wouldn’t pay someone to keep them indoors, feed them an innapropriate diet etc.

We have four chickens, we got them from a free range farm who obviously send them to slaughter when they’re not laying enough eggs, you can now sometimes rehome them. They were in poor condition, they all needed work doing on their beaks and all had very overgrown claws.

Op would it bother you if halal meat was all stunned first?

Why would I ask the OP to make two halal threads for every kosher thread they chose to start? Theres already an anti-islam thread, we’re all posting on it.

You do know you’re talking absolute rubbish killing animals is always painful, but that’s the price they pay for our meat

No of course not.

Wasn't aware I was taking a moral higher ground. I was just asking a question because I was curious. Most people have managed to answer or give their perspective in a mature fashion.

You have literally said that the author needs to start a kosher questioning thread for every halal questioning thread. I find that odd. This thread was obviously not started by a Jewish person yet people always need to bring Jews into the conversation and seem to want kosher to be attacked too rather than defending both halal and kosher food against those who would like both banned? Jewish and Muslim dietary laws are actually quite similar, so instead of saying "but what about Jews/kosher", there should be solidarity between Jews and Muslims when it comes to dietary laws against those who would ban both.

Why do you find it odd that people who are anti halal are also anti kosher? Do you not find it weirder that someone isn’t okay with halal, apparently cares about animals, yet isn’t bothered about kosher slaughter or even finding out about it? If someone genuinely had issues about slaughter, they’d find out about different types, not just one. I know they’re fairly similar (ex muslim), as someone who actually cares about animals, they’re both awful, just as non-religious killing of animals is also awful.

What, aside from your over-active imagination, makes you think Muslims don't already know what halal slaughter involves?

Also, why exclude Jewish kosher slaughter from your objections?

YABU and precious.

No, I don't find it strange because most people will never come across kosher meat because it is not sold in most places and there are very few kosher abattoirs, so people don't need to avoid it if they don't like kosher slaughter practices. In contrast, most meat is automatically halal these days as most supermarkets buy it as standard as there is more demand for it and therefore far more exposure to it by the general population and it is much harder to avoid for those who don't want to eat it.

I guess people who don't like halal or kosher meat are more opposed to halal because far more animals are killed via halal slaughter and it is harder to avoid buying halal meat than kosher because it is the default meat sold in most supermarkets, whereas kosher is not.

I'm not sure they are 'taking the high ground'. Aren't they just arguing that some methods of slaughter are more humane than others?

My extremely devout Christian grandparents slaughtered and prepped their own animals, chickens, ducks, pigs etc. With a sharp blade and no stunning, but obviously no prayers. I grew up watching and hearing it. My aunt and uncle (inherited the small farm) still do.

Is that just as appalling to you? Is the scale of it the issue for you? Is it the prayer? Is it the “other” religion?

If they are stunned first, surely it's not painful? Isn't that the point of stunning them?

What's appalling to me is the fact that laws are changed or bypassed in order to kowtow to unfounded beliefs. I think we should stop making allowances for or giving special treatment to any religion.

The animal is going to suffer though. Like the person saying that in Kosher killings the animal can't suffer, unless you are doing a sneak attack on a cow as it grazes merrily in field it is going to suffer. It's deluded to think that no matter what way you are slaughtering then the animal isn't going to suffer in some form. That's just the way it is. It's a nasty business killing animals no matter what way you look at it.

I did not ever know 'slaughterman' was a job title! Imagine putting that on LinkedIn!!!

You seem very confused. You seemed to be insinuating that religious slaughter was morally wrong and should be banned due to someone sobbing at the horror of it (while munching on a KFC).

You've done a lot of research into it but were completely unaware that Kosher animals aren't stunned either.

Most of the halal meat is stunned first and labelled. I assume you’re only objecting to the non stunned slaughter?
From the RSPCA site, around 50% of kosher meat is rejected and is likely to end up in the mainstream food chain without being labelled.

Of course they know! They aren't stupid just they believe that if they prayer Allah will take away the pain.

Why are you trying to combat possible Islamophobia by making anti-Semitic remarks?

Well I was on my lunch break and was in a rush but like I've said, I think 3 times now, I don't know much about kosher as any FB mention of it is only halal and kosher isn't mentioned.

Friends hubby worked in halal abbatoir hence my questioning. For the third and final time, no ulterior motive and once again no offence to anyone trying to find offence in the thread.