Too harsh on ND child?

[itscoldplay]

DS ADHD (and dyspraxia. Also likely ASD, but it’s his ADHD behind most of the challenging behaviours).

He’s 10, and just really hard work on the weekend especially when not medicated. Constant negativity when he doesn’t get his own way. Zero frustration tolerance. But what DH and I find most infuriating is the wind up behaviour, the back chat and rudeness.

Do you let some things like that go? The pestering siblings for example? Tonight DS, DD and I watching TV, cuddled up. He bothers DD, so I move to sit in between. He bothers her again, I send him out of the room for 5 minutes. He bothers her the third time, he is sent straight for his shower and bed. Cue major anger which for him means constant back chat, refusal to let anyone else have the last word, aggressive behaviours (I don’t think he would ever really hurt us but he will test the waters by gently pushing me or DH). “Shush”ing us constantly when we’re speaking, really disrespectful stuff. Eventually he is sobbing, saying he has a headache. No remorse in these scenarios typically (he is much better behaved at school and will always be remorseful if he does wrong, same with friends).

We try our best to keep our cool but it does end up in taking away tech for 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks because he doesn’t stop even when told. That’s what he was sobbing about tonight, he’s now lost his iPad for 2 weeks.

I wouldn’t escalate the punishment. The sending to his room was proportionate to ignoring repeated warnings to leave his sibling alone. Then let him rant if he wants to, but why escalate it to losing tech for such a long period? Try not to get into the situation where neither of you can back down.

2 weeks without the I Pad for winding up a sibling is a harsh punishment for any 10 year old. I think you need to pick your battles, if he's pulled up on everything he will constantly be in a negative state and it will be hard to get out of that.
Also think about what is driving the behaviour, maybe expecting a 10 year old with ADHD to watch a film in silence is too much. Maybe you could find an activity that will suit both children.

We let things go as long as they are not hurting anybody. In your situation I wouldn’t have let it go as his behaviour was impacting his sister.
But long term consequences like 2 week confiscations don’t work for my DS(ADHD, pos ASD) he needs immediate short term consequences and then to be allowed to move on and improve.

Yes unfortunately DH escalated the iPad punishment, although to be fair I had said to DS yesterday when he gave me very rude back chat that if it happened again, he would lose the iPad for a month. And I told DH about this at the time so he was probably trying to follow up with what I’d said. DS is very good at creating and sucking us into the ADHD vortex and I think we both (DH and I) end up feeling powerless sometimes so make these big drastic threats.

DS won’t miss out on not having his iPad for a couple of weeks anyway so that’s done now.

I’m so conscious of the negative cycle. Tonight he said that he hears so much negative things about himself and it’s so true. I’m very clear to pull DD up on things in front of him so he knows she doesn’t get away with things, but truth be told she is much much easier and so naturally doesn’t get pulled up as much.

Annoying the sibling was something i absolutely refused to put up with. And that meant they were in their room, alone, for an age-appropriate amount of time.
Followed by them apologising to the sibling.

Every time. and during that time i did something nice with sibling.

I read some interesting stuff about dopamine seeking behaviours when DS was diagnosed. Essentially, they are constantly seeking dopamine like small addict fiends and even negative reactions and responses can give them a “hit”.

I’ve noticed DS is particularly prone to wind up behaviour and back chat when he’s been either playing a game or has snuck in some YouTube watching at grandmas, it’s banned at our house. If the gaming is allowed to slip over our usually strict time limits, he’s much harder to manage and the aggy behaviour is worse.

I’ve found some success in redirecting him. If he’s bothering his brother he won’t stop until something meets the need for dopamine so he need some exercise (trampoline), some attention from an adult, a conversation, a deep hug/gentle pressure on him or just for me to do something to help him regulate and reset. It’s a very bloody exhausting way to parent and you have my sympathy because sometimes you just want to sit down and chill!!

I try to remember he wouldn’t do these things if he could help it. I do get frustrated sometimes but that usually makes him worse as then we have the spiral of him feeling terrible and being negative about himself.

Noooooo you’re doing it wroonnnngggg

Youre cutting off your nose to spite your face. ADHD kids self regulate with tech. So give it. And find different ways to manage.

@MysteriousFalafel 100%. He is very dopamine seeking and he absolutely gets these little hits, buzzes from winding us and DD up.

It sounds like he's struggling to regulate his behaviour once he's sent out. Then things get on a cycle of getting worse and worse. Maybe once he's been sent to bed, try ignoring further protests and bad behaviour unless dangerous, so he has to endure the original consequence but it doesn't keep escalating.

I appreciate your post and it may work for you, but Tech does my DS no favours so we have to regulate it.

For people with ADHD there are very often only two time zones : Now, and Not Now. So long punishments are utterly pointless.

Why isn't he medicated at the weekend? Crazy to stop if it works.

Absolutely!!!!!!

Not sure how I can get DH on board for this. He is also ADHD so you’d think it would be easy but actually I think it makes it so much worse. He (DH) also cannot be “told” what to do when it comes to parenting! He’s generally on board with a lot of the stuff we’re trying but he is so triggered by the rudeness and backchat (as am I).

Read what you’ve written : he’s dopamine seeking. Tech gives him that.

And there’s your problem. DH getting into “well he’s not the boss of me” and the heat rises. Is he medicated too?

It sounds exhausting for everyone but I wouldn't expect DD to just put up with being wound up. I think I'd just stop the film and do it another time if it's not working rather than escalating.

Ideally find ways to meet his energy with "flatness"/low energy, or you'll just escalate each other, but I know that is hard with ADHD.

If someone is annoyed at ppl talking over the TV we just pause the TV. No one needs to snap at people talking over it, they just look for the remote control.

@redphonecase @Pensionableperil a few reasons - we were advised to take a break due to the effect it has on appetite and growth. And also, because the brain can get too used to it if you never take breaks, making is less effective.

The medication isn’t a magic bullet and it’s worn off by the evening anyway. Not such a problem in the week as he does endless sports after school which are brilliant for him.

If he's losing weight fine, but the get used to it thing is nonsense

But the answer isn’t to give limitless tech time? The dopamine from tech isn’t necessarily the “right” dopamine hit. Also there is too much dopamine…it’s a minefield!

It’s not the taking tech that’s the problem OP
(My DS doesn’t have his own iPad and has very little screen time, tech doesn’t help him either.)
It’s the long term consequence that’s the problem, if his punishment is lasting a month anyway what’s the incentive to behave that month? You keeping him stuck in a negative cycle. Immediate short term consequences and then move on.

Who told you this? I’m prepared to guess it wasn’t a prescribing consultant paediatrician…

Yes he is medicated, again not a magic bullet and again wears off by the evening.

I would like to see how many adults could be pushed and have an aggressive 10 year old in their face shouting SHUSH constantly and not get angry. I think DH did well to just give a tech ban consequence rather than shout at him! ADHD or no ADHD, it’s so hard to keep your cool with a child if that age when they’re behaving like that.

Yes I know what you mean, but to be honest as he gets older the longer term consequences have had more effect. I often notice his behaviour improves with a Tech ban anyway. It’s more along the lines of, this iPad is a privilege, for boys who can be sensible and mature, and until you can behave like that, you’re not sensible nor mature enough to have the iPad.

For some kids that IS the answer, especially in the absence of a neurological stimulant. And what is the “right” dopamine hit?

I have 3 with ADHD and I’ll take whatever dopamine hit is available - ideally from outdoor sports and heavy horticulture, and some field archeology. But kindly, you have to do what gets you ALL through and if the house is calm because he gets tech, give it.