Too harsh on ND child?

[itscoldplay]

DS ADHD (and dyspraxia. Also likely ASD, but it’s his ADHD behind most of the challenging behaviours).

He’s 10, and just really hard work on the weekend especially when not medicated. Constant negativity when he doesn’t get his own way. Zero frustration tolerance. But what DH and I find most infuriating is the wind up behaviour, the back chat and rudeness.

Do you let some things like that go? The pestering siblings for example? Tonight DS, DD and I watching TV, cuddled up. He bothers DD, so I move to sit in between. He bothers her again, I send him out of the room for 5 minutes. He bothers her the third time, he is sent straight for his shower and bed. Cue major anger which for him means constant back chat, refusal to let anyone else have the last word, aggressive behaviours (I don’t think he would ever really hurt us but he will test the waters by gently pushing me or DH). “Shush”ing us constantly when we’re speaking, really disrespectful stuff. Eventually he is sobbing, saying he has a headache. No remorse in these scenarios typically (he is much better behaved at school and will always be remorseful if he does wrong, same with friends).

We try our best to keep our cool but it does end up in taking away tech for 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks because he doesn’t stop even when told. That’s what he was sobbing about tonight, he’s now lost his iPad for 2 weeks.

Why is he not medicated on the weekends. I think that would cause him distress. It’s to help him, why are they taking it away. Just curious bc I don’t know much about this but my grandson is being evaluated at the moment.

Finding a way to regulate his emotions and teach him how to do so is probably going to be the best thing you can do, same for your daughter as well. It doesn't have to be explicit - you're acting like this so we're going to do xyz. It could just be oh they're seeking a fight, that means dopamine so we're going to change what he/she's doing to this.
It sounds like your daughter's seeking behavior may have been the cause of this fight, helping her may actually help the 2 of them be less reactive.
One other thing to be careful of with your daughter is that she may seem flexible but it's because she has to be compared to him. I think ND girls get treated more stricter than their male ND siblings because we subconsciously expect them to behave better and because their ADHD symptoms often manifest in ways that are seen more as moral failings like messiness than outbursts like your son.

I think there's probably no easy win because there's no cure, only doing your best and it does sound like you're really trying and that's the most important thing. It's all trial and error.

How old is his sister? And it seems as if you are getting involved and punishing straight away - is that becuase if you don’t he could get aggressive towards her.

it is just things seem to escalate v quickly including your anger which can’t help

It’s so difficult on a journey with our dc (7) who I think is adhd/asd. I go back & forth with tech I give them iPad and switch time but it’s restricted no you tube except as a family. I have tried before to withdraw it but ultimately decided limiting was better for them.
It’s impossible not to lose your cool at times no one is a saint. I think as parents we try to resolve the situation ultimately we know it’s not the best but try anything. A big trigger for me is when they hurt their sibling.
you sound like you have done all the research and are trying to do what is best for your family 👏🏻

OP I get it, my DC is exactly like this but with added violence against me and sibling. It's so hard to keep calm, and I don't blame you for getting frustrated.

When my DC is domapine seeking, I tend to ignore the bad behaviour and remove myself/sibling and if this leads to meltdown leave them to calm down in their room, however they need to. I used to make things worse by over talking and being cross. There is no point in long punishments for ADHD children. Being sent to their room was enough. It's tough though so you have my sympathies.

I have one like that who is also 10.
Exact same issues, ADHD/ASD etc.
I try to redirect the situation if he is pestering siblings. In times when he gets annoyed I let him just rant in his room.
We home educate but I found those incidents are way down now to even how life was 2 years ago.
Basically all comes to lack of dopamine. Their brain seeks it and it can be in positive or negative way.
Try trampoline, bear hugs, slime, new song or anything new really.

ASD DC here but we get some of the same wind up behaviour and back chat and once it escalates it is a nightmare as he can't regulate himself so I do let a lot of things go which my DH really struggles to do and also makes extensive threats relating to the iPad and gets stuck in a negative spiral. I feel like I have a lot more success in connecting with DC and getting what I want to happen without a meltdown and that I am modelling the behaviour I want to see. DH thinks I am lax at parenting but I think modelling shouting and angry responses is not great. Have you tried reading low demand parenting or the explosive child? Might be helpful

Exactly this op. Your parenting style is fine for a neuro typical kid, but yours is neuro diverse.

'Instead of focusing on punishment, prioritize positive reinforcement, clear expectations, and understanding the unique needs of neurodiverse children to foster positive behavior and emotional regulation'

Could you seek some help from CYPS? You have to be careful when disciplining a ND child; it really isn't the same. Please don't threaten to take Tech away, it is counterproductive. I have to adapt my parenting style for mine.

Couple of thoughts (I have 2 ND girls who are now adults):

He is wired differently and his needs might not cope what a "regular" family would do eg watching a film. Maybe shorter comedies like Mr Bean would work better?

Lots of physical activity during the day.

When he starts acting up, redirection not escalation. And escalation can include telling off.

Think regulation all the time - for all of you. The most important thing is to keep everyone regulated. Punishment in particular can be escalating for no good outcome.

We were taught on a course to say " You aren't strong enough right now to.......so I'm going to help you" and whisk them off and out to something they can cope with. It stops any shaming and stops any escalation.

Try reading the book "The Out of Synch Child".

Try to get out of the idea that good parenting requires punishment. Other people will think you are being soft, but actually, taking stuff away or putting a child in a time out just hands all responsibility for repairing what happened to a child who isn't able to process it - we know this because they keep making the same choices/ mistakes. Kids like this need a lot more scaffolding from their parents.

Don't compare him to your daughter or expect him to do what she can.

Focus on your relationship. It helps when they are teenagers if they think you understand and are trying to help rather than still punishing them.

Good luck x

The punishment sound much too harsh and prolonged.
wny are you expecting a child with ADHD to sit quietly to watch a movie?
why is he unmedicated?

You’re setting him up to fail by having unrealistic expectations of him when he isn’t taking his medication. That’s not fair on him. Expecting him to sit still and quiet for the duration of a film is far too long for him just now. Especially when you have chosen to not give him his medication! You can’t have it both ways! It’s like expecting a child with visual impairment to watch a film without their glasses on. It’s just not fair.
And you can tell him you love him a thousand times a day but that isn’t what he hears because when he NEEDS YOU, you send him away and shout at him. Actions speak louder than words in these circumstances.

Way, way too harsh. And you’re not prepared to listen to anyone really, you’re very defensive in your replies. You clearly know best about tech, your dh, medicating etc etc. 🤦🏼‍♀️

My son is 12 and has autism and if I took his tech away for even a day it would be the end of the world, for all of us. If tech is such an issue you feel you have to be so strict about it then you need to be more laid back about it, not tighter. It shows it’s really important to him if it’s become such a huge thing you’re using it as a punishment. Many kids with autism and adhd need tech to calm down, regulate, relax. They can’t amuse themselves in the same way as other dc.

You need to ignore the secondary behaviour. When you give a consequence he will react - don’t then punish the reaction, or you will be in an escalating situation. Instead try empathising - yes your angry that you’ve been sent out.

What did they do before the days of tech?

Got shouted at, and told they were a "naughty child" probably for things they couldn't help. Thank god we have progressed in this area!

I have found grownowadhd and the adhd dude invaluable resources for dealing with child with ADHD. Reacting as little as possible whilst having clear, enforceable consequences for the behaviours, and we have no screen time at all during the week and only TV, usually movies, on the weekend. He has been so much better since we made that change. There are still struggles but it really helps. We do have immediate negative consequences for bad behaviour as he won’t respond to anything else when wound up in that cycle. ‘If you choose be aggressive then you choose to have X removed’ and then earn things back with consistent good behaviour.

Also focus on earning other things he wants and praising good behaviour of course. We also have outlets for him that help such as a punching bag and other things that help when he is feeling destructive that won’t make him feel worse afterward.

Sorry but ASD and ADHD are not the same, neurologically. Removing tech has been a game changer for my ADHD DSS because he cannot regulate himself around it. He was basically allowed to watch as much as he wanted and had a TV and console in his room at the age of 5 and we paid the price. Without it he is drawing, reading, doing a host of other great things and is feeling much better about himself
as a result. And then really enjoys when he gets to watch movies etc as a family or alone.

I'm a bit confused. I'm not advocating tech in bedrooms at 5? Did you mean to quote me?
My child has both autism and adhd. I wouldn't threaten to take tech away as a punishment. It isn't in his room to start with, though. He uses it downstairs only, and it works well, he isn't on it all of the time. He loves all of the educational things, coding etc, and it relaxes him. All DCs are different whether they're ND or not. My dc loves black and white clear rigid rules, and nothing sprung on him out of the blue. Positive reinforcement works well.

On subject of screens for ND child.
I totally hate YouTube obsession, specially mindless shorts, but don't mind my kids playing games together.
I find if I allow too much, the attention goes away and drama starts.
I blocked YouTube on Wifi and 4 days in kids play together more and are nicer to each other.
I think youTube shorts in particular make ADHD behaviour (and many adults too) much worse. It's killing attention span.

No, you are suggesting that a child who can’t regulate themselves around screens should be allowed to access them more in order to use it as emotion regulation.

That may be helpful for some children, but for those with ADHD it is likely to do more harm than good.

We never allowed that with DSS but anytime he was allowed to play a video game he was angrier when it was time to finish than if he’s not allowed it all. He was relying entirely on external things like screens to manage his emotions and to prevent boredom, when boredom is the place where creativity happens.

Where have I said this? Please quote me word for word. Or are you making that huge assumption from:

Got shouted at, and told they were a "naughty child" probably for things they couldn't help. Thank god we have progressed in this area!'

I have not said what you're l I have said and that is certainly not my view.

Played outside
Surely they don't "regulate" with tech. They are just quietly feeding their addiction and not bothering their parents. Which I can totally see that parents need a break, but surely can't be helpful in the long run.

I used to find focusing on the positive with little rewards worked best for my dd. She wasn’t diagnosed until 17. But when she was little we found this the best strategy.

Getting into endless punishments just made everything worse.

Focus on the good.

There are so many judgemental posters on here who seem to think they know the magic bullet for raising a ND child. Just because your own kids may have adhd/asd/other, doesnt mean all kids with adhd/asd/other will respond well to your way of parenting. The OP will know her son much better than some posters on MN. Whatever happened to if you know one autistic/adhd child, then you know one autistic/adhd child....

It helped my ADHD daughter.