Too harsh on ND child?

[itscoldplay]

DS ADHD (and dyspraxia. Also likely ASD, but it’s his ADHD behind most of the challenging behaviours).

He’s 10, and just really hard work on the weekend especially when not medicated. Constant negativity when he doesn’t get his own way. Zero frustration tolerance. But what DH and I find most infuriating is the wind up behaviour, the back chat and rudeness.

Do you let some things like that go? The pestering siblings for example? Tonight DS, DD and I watching TV, cuddled up. He bothers DD, so I move to sit in between. He bothers her again, I send him out of the room for 5 minutes. He bothers her the third time, he is sent straight for his shower and bed. Cue major anger which for him means constant back chat, refusal to let anyone else have the last word, aggressive behaviours (I don’t think he would ever really hurt us but he will test the waters by gently pushing me or DH). “Shush”ing us constantly when we’re speaking, really disrespectful stuff. Eventually he is sobbing, saying he has a headache. No remorse in these scenarios typically (he is much better behaved at school and will always be remorseful if he does wrong, same with friends).

We try our best to keep our cool but it does end up in taking away tech for 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks because he doesn’t stop even when told. That’s what he was sobbing about tonight, he’s now lost his iPad for 2 weeks.

Maybe going ballistic finally gives them the dopamine hit they’re craving.

No, losing your shit

• terrifies the child
• makes them think you hate them
• and makes them think it’s ok to lose your shit at a child when you’re an adult

Hello again. Imagine one of those days when you are at your most stressed out, perhaps with some additional worries about anything that can really tip you over the edge, push every one of your most tender buttons.

You are coiled up so tightly, you can't really think rationally, you're under pressure to do a million things 'right now / by 8:15am' etc, and you then are bombarded with other things that you usually can tolerate but on this particularly day just feel like someone scratching nails on a blackboard x 100 decibels louder than you can bear. [Add in anything else you can think of to make this day worse.]

You've now gone over the edge.

You're spiralling, you're being irrational, and you are losing it. You might be shouting, but you're not even really sure what now.

People who love you have tried to show you compassion, but it just can't work right now because you can't handle it ... and if any one else could "see" everything you were buckling under, they would IMMEDIATELY totally just get WHY.

You basically lose your rag. You know you shouldn't - by goodness, you really DO know how you OUGHT to behave / be / how you WANT to be, but you just really can't. It is - quite frankly - beyond your coping abilities in any shape or form right now.

Imagine you being videoed at this point, and it played out publicly. Imagine the shame you would feel.

Then along comes your boss (or any other human you really respect, love or value.)

They proceed to point out - in an irate manner - all the horrible, negative things you have just done, with really great justification, and wowwwwww, they really have the upper hand now. Not only are they seeing you at your absolute worst, but they're seeing you when you're most ashamed of how you're behaving too, and on top of this, they even get to eloquently elaborate this and make you feel a gazillion times worse! Pretty snooty tone they're using too, righteous and pompous, boy that really is just what you need right now too (!).

You actually already knew you have behaved far below the standards you aspire to, but given the perfect storm, you are actually - it turns out - fallible.

Nevertheless, your boss goes on to publicly announce (in front of people who you would feel great shame about hearing this) in clear and hideously frank terms how utterly awful you are, etc etc - and to boot - adds in a financial penalty which feels to you catastrophic at this point.

But what feels worse is the horrible words used to describe you, when you were literally at your lowest ebb, barely coping and ... being fallible. They cut like knives. They sting, they hurt, those words are unbearable, and not least because - well, yes - you were being like that at that point. Must you really be such an awful individual? Does your boss (or other person inserted here that you love/ crave the approval of / would hate to see you at your lowest and most shameful behaviours) REALLY only see this awful side of you? Did they have to react like that? Could they have adopted even a tiny bit different of a stance?

Could they have perhaps thought "nowwwww then. Hmmmmm. I know itscoldplay. I know she's a fab person. I know she's funny, kind, has huge expectations of herself, and really values everyone around her. She must really be having something tough to handle here for her to react that way. Jeesh, she's probably feeling awful underneath this! I'd never want to embarrass her, nor point out that she's really clearly lost it here, that is plain and evident. She's pretty smart, I know when she calms down, she'll probably realise this too ... I can certainly give her grace and bite my own tongue because no wayyyyy am I having even 1 millionth of such a bad day as she clearly is right now. I wonder what I can do to be of assistance? Perhaps if I just back off a little, stay close enough so she knows I'm here, and keep myself calm and regulated, she will be able to reach for me however she can - she might not phrase it nicely right now, I can certainly see that - but I'll be a source of compassion and calm, and her biggest ally, cheerleader and supporter by showing her that I'm simply ... here. Uncriticising. Unjudgementally. Calmly. Once she can perhaps hear me, I'll take some of the pressure of by offering her some flexibility, perhaps I can extend my deadline past 8:15, or offer to drive her to her meeting instead of walking ... or ... quick, quick, let me think of something else. Maybe she'd like to jump on this beaten up old mattress I keep stuffed behind the sofa for exactly this kind of meltdown time to jump on or pummell out my own frustrations. Perhaps I'll start doing that myself and maybe she'll join in jumping with me, who knows!"

@Itisalwayspossibletobekind
Awesome post. A must read.

Sorry OP, I do think you’re too harsh with him.

Things like this
It’s more along the lines of, this iPad is a privilege, for boys who can be sensible and mature, and until you can behave like that, you’re not sensible nor mature enough to have the iPad.

I mean…people with adhd have issues with impulsiveness. I think you said he may have asd too and that’s very often associated with emotional immaturity.
You seem to want him to be someone he isn’t, instead of helping him be the best ‘him’ he can be?

I know it’s hard on you and his sibling too.
I know it is. But it’s hard on him too and I don’t think you’re approaching it the right way, sorry.

I honestly think you sound to reactive .

My D’s has ADHD/ASD ..

you escalate punishments … I rather than saying this will happen , that will happen - there will be be a consequence once I have considered it . Your dc does not sound like the kind of child who backs down so no point pushing .

Don’t debate - simple statements later .
you can discuss what he could have done done differently.

make sure he gets plenty exercise on meds off days - my Ds doesn’t have a break - if he ever missed a dose because he was ill took a few days to get back to his norm .

Also if watching Tv it is hard to sit still fidget toys or other activities he enjoys so he can be part of the family without having to do it your way .

After all that said it’s hard trying to get it right but hard for him to function in a NT world .

😰

You need to stop comparing your children. And try to pause and think what decisions you want to make in the moment. And you need to have a plan to put into action during these times. Maybe if you model it, your DH will see the benefits and copy it.

You're scared he'll grow up into a prick, I get it. But right now he's 10. It's kind of prime prick age 😂 and he's shown that at school he can behave well.

I would try stepping in with distraction or changing the scene as soon as a whiff of antagonism starts rather than expect him to follow rules he's not followed 1000 times before and maybe even gets a kick out of not following.

Also longer term: How can you give him more responsibility, make him feel good about himself, show you trust him? Do you get much 1-1 time?

If my child calls me a name, says I'm stupid or for example tells me to shush, I lean into that. So I might say "oh I'm too stupid to make you pudding, too bad" "oh I'm too stupid to take you to your friend's house in the car" they apologize immediately and say I'm great 😂 if they shush I might go silent and mime that I can't talk. It's a playful way of moving on. I do get stern with mine, don't get me wrong, but I try to give them ways of making it right without anger first. I'm trying to think of the long game, self esteem and connection with them.

Catch 22, you’re all feeding into each others behaviours and trigger ring each other . I agree with ignoring him once he’s been sent off to shower. If DH can’t manage this he should go for a walk till he is calm, then return.

It's not abusive to get angry and tell a kid who is being rude that he is acting inappropriately.

He was clearly able to change his behaviour when he realized he'd crossed the line.

Some things are just normal kid stuff.

OP you may find a parenting toolkit course with ADHD Wise helpful. We did one. Very helpful in deed
explains what can go wrong and why and gives you tools to deescalate

in the meantime remember your child is 10.

and he is disabled. With a neurological condition.
which means he has a spikey profile and so may be 30% delayed in some areas of development.

so imagine he is 6 or 7. What would your expectations be then?

recalibrate.

he is 10. Not 16.

ypur Household sounds very disregulated and as the adult you need to be the collected voice of calm to help regulate emotions.

and yes this is hard.

for example with the sofa time - why did you send him away? Why not love him and cuddle him and make him feel wanted?

also he has adhd. He needs to move and he needs connection . Before screen time how hard have you run him?
Have you trampolined , wrestled and kicked a ball and swung from trees for 2 - 4 hours?

my mum used to say kids are like dogs and they should be walked hard twice a day and fed regularly. As a parent in a ND household I now know what she means!!!!!

on the weekend you Need to incorporate this into your day.

and you need to show some kindness and compassion. Keep going down this negative path is not going where you want it to.

adhd wise parenting toolkit course would be great for you and your OH. Highly recommend it.

If his ADHD has caused this behaviour, then it’s not his fault and he won’t respond to punishments if he’s got autism as well so you’re a bit stuck

“Maybe going ballistic finally gives them the dopamine hit they’re craving.”

I doubt it. In my child’s experience, it just makes them feel bad enough about themselves that they are still apologising hours later ;(

Punishing a child doesn’t help them learn to regulate.

That doesn’t mean they didn’t get the dopamine hit.

The problem with my son (he’s 13) is that if you give an inch, he takes a mile. Out of the two of us parents, dp is the strict one who tries not to give and I am the one who he comes and talks to about his day etc but then totally takes the piss, attempting to dine out on one good day for ever more! “I had a good day yesterday; can I have x? Y? Z? Why not?! But I had a good day!” And that’s after he’s been justly rewarded for his effort already.

By the way, I talk until I’m blue in the face but obviously too much talking becomes white noise, and actions speak louder. I consider myself well versed in behaviour management theory; SEND; etc due to my job, but when it’s your own child it’s so hard.

i agree with @itscoldplay that ND kids need to learn how to manage in the world; the world, sadly, isn’t going to change for them.

@itscoldplay are you UK based?

I don’t have a ND child, however there is a small business on Instagram/has own website called Craftly. I bought some routine boards from her for my toddler and she has a massive section on her website where she makes lots of resources for ND children and adults including lots of different ones for coping strategies. It might be a good way of getting your son to communicate his needs and make better choices.

I would definitely recommend taking a look at her stuff as her reviews are really good from parents who have ND children and adults who have it themselves.

regular med breaks are encouraged.

@Ritzybitzy Pretending a child isn’t actually doing anything wrong and “reframing” obnoxious behaviour as fine is about the least helpful thing you can do. Of course I’m not suggesting harsh punishment; I’d never support that for any child, ND or otherwise. But the ND parenting often advocated on Mumsnet is unrealistic about what the adult world is like when the ND child grows up.

@Chungai It’s actually disturbing and distressing that when OP talks about not letting her child bully his sister and gives an example of how she doesn’t let the sister get away with bad behaviour, making clear this isn’t favouritism), your response is “stop comparing them!”

So… he should just be allowed to bully his sister? One day this boy will be an adult man. Statistically he is probably straight, and will want to be in relationships with women. His mum is laying the groundwork right now for what is an acceptable way to treat women.

Calling this abusive is absolutely ludicrous. She is trying to parent her child to become a functioning adult who can cope in the adult world and form relationships and, in fact, not destroy his friendships and relationships. Not himself grow up to be abusive. The worst thing she can possibly do is not be direct with him about bad behaviours. Have you not watched “Adolescence”? Boys need to learn not to be entitled from a young age; that’s incredibly important and it’s the same regardless of neurotype. If anything a ND child needs to a more explicit and direct conversation.

That doesn’t mean she isn’t a kind and loving parent to him.

No, it is abusive. I stand by my opinion. What is utterly ridiculous is you implying not properly medicating and punishing a 10yr old for his ADHD will actually PREVENT him from turning into an incel murderer who stabs a 13yr old girl to death in a car park. Sorry, you are wrong.

It is lack of proper medication and lack of accommodation and empathy for a neurological disability that CAUSES children to turn into juvenile offenders and later adult criminals.

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice You're entitled to your opinion but I think it’s utterly cruel and unnecessary, not to mention unsupportive, to accuse OP of abuse. In no way am I saying that her DS will become the child in Adolescence! Obviously that is an extreme and rare situation. I’m saying that the good parenting which she is doing is the kind of parenting boys need to teach them not to be entitled. So very much the opposite of what you are implying. I would never come onto a MN thread and suggest that an OP’s child was like the child in the series. There is nothing to suggest that. My point is that you don’t seem to understand that firm (and kind) parenting is necessary and is actually a good thing.

He wasn’t being rude when the OP launched into her tear down tirade. He was looking for support- for empathy and advice on friendship woes, not to be told he is probably lying about his friends not being that good, that he is always horrible and so he must be the problem.

Hear that often enough and that leads to self-harm and suicide.

It was abusive.

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice Obsessively calling the OP abusive is hardly in the spirit of MN.