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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Too harsh on ND child?

234 replies

itscoldplay · 16/03/2025 21:18

DS ADHD (and dyspraxia. Also likely ASD, but it’s his ADHD behind most of the challenging behaviours).

He’s 10, and just really hard work on the weekend especially when not medicated. Constant negativity when he doesn’t get his own way. Zero frustration tolerance. But what DH and I find most infuriating is the wind up behaviour, the back chat and rudeness.

Do you let some things like that go? The pestering siblings for example? Tonight DS, DD and I watching TV, cuddled up. He bothers DD, so I move to sit in between. He bothers her again, I send him out of the room for 5 minutes. He bothers her the third time, he is sent straight for his shower and bed. Cue major anger which for him means constant back chat, refusal to let anyone else have the last word, aggressive behaviours (I don’t think he would ever really hurt us but he will test the waters by gently pushing me or DH). “Shush”ing us constantly when we’re speaking, really disrespectful stuff. Eventually he is sobbing, saying he has a headache. No remorse in these scenarios typically (he is much better behaved at school and will always be remorseful if he does wrong, same with friends).

We try our best to keep our cool but it does end up in taking away tech for 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks because he doesn’t stop even when told. That’s what he was sobbing about tonight, he’s now lost his iPad for 2 weeks.

OP posts:
SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 18/03/2025 15:38

@Haveyouanyjam
Yes, I parent two ND children. The thing with dopamine is it isn’t just feel good reward hormone. It is also released in stressful situations where it is important to be able to focus your attention and exert motor control. So a “dopamine rush” during a conflict isn’t the kind that makes you feel good and want to repeat create conflicts, it’s more a oh shit, this is serious I have to give this person my undivided attention, I can’t run away, I can’t start throwing things on the floor, I can’t wave my arms and pace.

Yes DCs will often spend more time arguing against doing a chore or homework than it would take to just do it. In my opinion, that is more a symptom of overwhelm and how hard it is with ADHD to initiate a task.

I agree it’s often subconscious, but rather than seeking conflict or attention as a reward, it’s more avoidance behaviours and defensive/protective mechanisms when difficult subjects are brought up or demands placed on them when they’ve hit their personal limit of what they can handle right now.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 18/03/2025 15:54

Would you say your behaviour is people pleasing on this thread?

No, not my behaviour. But then I am a menopausal middle aged fed up with shit woman and I will call a spade a spade. I am not a 10yr old child desperate for a mother’s love, approval and empathy who is being constantly punished, shouted at, excluded and told how awful/rude/your fault he is for things he can’t control.

I was referring to prepubescent ADHD children tending to be people pleasers. If OP doesn’t go for the kind, calm, gentle but honest approach you and I use, her child will eventually stop trying. What is the point of trying when you fail every time and you’re going to be punished anyway? You can’t punish away a disability. I have found I have to listen and teach them how to handle different scenarios by role playing. I have learned to adjust expectations and demands to their actual capabilities.

Arran2024 · 18/03/2025 16:05

So many of our kids struggle with the basics - my daughter has PDA, which involves her having a panic attack if a demand is placed on her, which looks like a tantrum / stroppy behaviour.

She never did a single chore in this house as I prioritised our relationship and harmony in the house (other daughter/husband/dogs/neighbours). Anyway, people would criticise me for it.

But she now has a job and a boyfriend and they live together and she does everything - cleaning, cooking, laundry etc because it's not a demand being placed on her.

I focused on helping her to self regulate and it all worked out in the end.

I think it's easy to focus on the here and now when actually the bigger picture is more important.

We have a lovely relationship. She knows I know how to help her and that I understand her needs and that I won't shout at her or tell her what to do.

Itisalwayspossibletobekind · 18/03/2025 18:22

Arran2024 · 18/03/2025 11:07

You have to parent ND children carefully. Obviously he can't be allowed to be an active threat to his sister, but that's not what we are talking about here - it is about the wisdom of using punitive methods on a struggling child who needs more scaffolding than the average child.

Some of us are suggesting ways to provide that scaffolding. Shouting it down on the basis he's going to turn into a murderer or similar in a few years is not helpful.

I have two adult adopted children. Adopters often find they are parenting children with incredibly challenging behaviours and for the last 25 years or so the adoption community has been heavily involved in finding strategies that work. Most adopters I know have had to completely change their natural parenting style to accommodate the Nero divergence, special educational needs, trauma etc they are dealing with.

And I can tell you that shouting, punishing, time out etc is not recommended. Firm boundaries are in but in a loving way.

And any parenting course will say much the same.

Look at NVR, for example, which is becoming increasingly popular. You choose your battles, learn how to keep a child regulated, how to de-escalate, how to stay calm calm yourself, how to use conciliatory gestures. But it also includes firm boundaries.

Imo the main thing with kids like this is not to focus on the punishment after the event but to stop the event in the first place. That's where sensory strategies come in - lots of active play, hard pressure activities, use of snacks (find out if crunching, chewing, licking, sucking helps your child and choose snacks accordingly). And parenting support for the parents like a parenting course or even just seeing a counsellor.

Shouting and punishing just leaves the child to deal with the too-big feelings all on their own. They can't do it and it will continue.

My daughters have grown up to be able to self regulate - the gold standard for adult behaviour - but that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't helped them.

This is not soft parenting btw but it is highly engaged parenting, which takes a huge amount of effort. So much easier to scream at a kid and send them to their room for half am hour than to have planned a physical activity and monitored your children's interactions and intervened at the first sign of trouble with a redirection.

What a wise, eloquent, insightful, and informative post @Arran2024

Whatafustercluck · 18/03/2025 18:33

Arran2024 · 18/03/2025 16:05

So many of our kids struggle with the basics - my daughter has PDA, which involves her having a panic attack if a demand is placed on her, which looks like a tantrum / stroppy behaviour.

She never did a single chore in this house as I prioritised our relationship and harmony in the house (other daughter/husband/dogs/neighbours). Anyway, people would criticise me for it.

But she now has a job and a boyfriend and they live together and she does everything - cleaning, cooking, laundry etc because it's not a demand being placed on her.

I focused on helping her to self regulate and it all worked out in the end.

I think it's easy to focus on the here and now when actually the bigger picture is more important.

We have a lovely relationship. She knows I know how to help her and that I understand her needs and that I won't shout at her or tell her what to do.

I just wanted to say how reassuring it is to read this, and your other (very wise) post. This is what I am trying to do for our two ND dc. It took a lot of false starts because the ND parenting strategies often feel counterintuitive when you've had all the NT parenting strategies thrown at you for so long. But we're finally making progress, and they are honest and trusting with me because I take the effort to understand them and adapt accordingly. It's so good to hear that there is hope.

Itisalwayspossibletobekind · 18/03/2025 18:41

Haveyouanyjam · 18/03/2025 13:40

I have in no way suggested that OP’s parenting is perfect but there is a large spectrum between perfect and abuse. If she had told her son his friends didn’t like him because he’s a nasty little shit, then that would be abuse. She may have been too harsh and is clearly losing her patience at times which isn’t great (though I’m sure we all have). However, in my experience, people who wonder what they could do better and try to understand their child whilst being honest about the times they messed up, are not abusive.

You may not agree, that’s fine, but to me, abuse has an element of cruelty to it, or at least a wilful ignorance of the impact of the behaviour. You can acknowledge poor behaviour that isn’t abusive behaviour, both exist.

It is a hard balance to strike to maintain your authority with an ADHD child who gets brain rewards from conflict and unconsciously wants to control the situation to keep getting those rewards, whilst staying calm and kind. It takes a lot of practice and effort.

I think that many of us have seen that OP is not actually self reflecting on many of the excellent points that have been raised here, in a way to try and enrich her understanding of how her little boy is struggling, nor the harm which she is doing with the way she is currently handling him. It also seems that he is being punished more harshly for things he is clearly not being understood with. There have also been responses where OP has said she has lost her temper e.g. with his behaviour at times of transitions. It's well known that transitions are especially tough for ND children/ adults, and as a parent of an ND child (who is also medicating for this), most of us would hope that OP would be factoring in the additional challenges these every day (predictable) situations present. Not coming down on her poor kid like a ton of bricks, and telling him that it's basically his fault if his friends don't like him. We know that social relationships are challenging for ND kids, who need extra scaffolding to build and maintain them, so responding like this to the lad, who has basically just attempted to enlist his Mum's help with a plea, is actually cruel.

Newname71 · 18/03/2025 18:50

Pensionableperil · 16/03/2025 21:31

For people with ADHD there are very often only two time zones : Now, and Not Now. So long punishments are utterly pointless.

Oh this is so my 17 year old son! It’s exhausting. When he wants/needs me to do something for him it has to be RIGHT NOW!! . He goes on and on and on until I do it. He’s been known to wake me at stupid o’clock to tell me random things because I need to know RIGHT NOW.!
I wouldn’t change him though. He’s got the sharpest wit and has me in hysterics!

itscoldplay · 18/03/2025 21:19

TempestTost · 18/03/2025 01:20

It's not abusive to get angry and tell a kid who is being rude that he is acting inappropriately.

He was clearly able to change his behaviour when he realized he'd crossed the line.

Some things are just normal kid stuff.

Thank you. Being told I’m abusive upset me, even though I know I’m not. I know my DS and he will go on a negative spiral when he’s been told off. When I picked him up from school he was happy and regulated (like he usually is) and was overjoyed that he and said friend had been partnered up. I asked him about his comments that morning, was it really true or was it because he was angry. Of course, I was just angry, he replied. I know the child he was talking about well, he’s a great friend as is DS to him.

I want to help my DS get along in life. I’m always on his side, but part of helping him get along is learning what might make us dislikable or a target.

OP posts:
itscoldplay · 18/03/2025 21:24

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 18/03/2025 10:19

No, it is abusive. I stand by my opinion. What is utterly ridiculous is you implying not properly medicating and punishing a 10yr old for his ADHD will actually PREVENT him from turning into an incel murderer who stabs a 13yr old girl to death in a car park. Sorry, you are wrong.

It is lack of proper medication and lack of accommodation and empathy for a neurological disability that CAUSES children to turn into juvenile offenders and later adult criminals.

I don’t know why you have decided my DS is not properly medicated. We are following the advice exactly from his paediatrician. The recommendation is to not medicate him on non school days.

OP posts:
itscoldplay · 18/03/2025 21:31

Oioisavaloy27 · 18/03/2025 11:03

Op as a matter of interest why is your child not medicated at the weekend and what do you actually do with him over the weekend? Does he get lots of exercise?

He isn’t medicated over the weekend because his paediatrician said he shouldn’t be.

On the weekend he has sports clubs both mornings. Otherwise the usual, a mixture of swing family or friends, days out as a family, games, errands if we have to (rarely). Downtime at home sometimes, he asks for more, he’s always asking for “quiet time” home, but that means non stop screens, after which his behaviour takes a nose dive.

OP posts:
itscoldplay · 18/03/2025 21:36

Arran2024 · 18/03/2025 11:07

You have to parent ND children carefully. Obviously he can't be allowed to be an active threat to his sister, but that's not what we are talking about here - it is about the wisdom of using punitive methods on a struggling child who needs more scaffolding than the average child.

Some of us are suggesting ways to provide that scaffolding. Shouting it down on the basis he's going to turn into a murderer or similar in a few years is not helpful.

I have two adult adopted children. Adopters often find they are parenting children with incredibly challenging behaviours and for the last 25 years or so the adoption community has been heavily involved in finding strategies that work. Most adopters I know have had to completely change their natural parenting style to accommodate the Nero divergence, special educational needs, trauma etc they are dealing with.

And I can tell you that shouting, punishing, time out etc is not recommended. Firm boundaries are in but in a loving way.

And any parenting course will say much the same.

Look at NVR, for example, which is becoming increasingly popular. You choose your battles, learn how to keep a child regulated, how to de-escalate, how to stay calm calm yourself, how to use conciliatory gestures. But it also includes firm boundaries.

Imo the main thing with kids like this is not to focus on the punishment after the event but to stop the event in the first place. That's where sensory strategies come in - lots of active play, hard pressure activities, use of snacks (find out if crunching, chewing, licking, sucking helps your child and choose snacks accordingly). And parenting support for the parents like a parenting course or even just seeing a counsellor.

Shouting and punishing just leaves the child to deal with the too-big feelings all on their own. They can't do it and it will continue.

My daughters have grown up to be able to self regulate - the gold standard for adult behaviour - but that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't helped them.

This is not soft parenting btw but it is highly engaged parenting, which takes a huge amount of effort. So much easier to scream at a kid and send them to their room for half am hour than to have planned a physical activity and monitored your children's interactions and intervened at the first sign of trouble with a redirection.

What is NVR please?

I find the boundaries in a kind way very difficult, my DS can be very intimidating. I am not shouty 90% of the time. But I am very very firm. This still seems to escalate things, but often DS escalates himself even if I have walked away. I also have a duty to stop him from making too much noise for example to our neighbours.

OP posts:
itscoldplay · 18/03/2025 21:40

Yellowsunbeams · 18/03/2025 11:22

ASD and ADHD children react better if there is a "treat" they are hoping to get rather than being punished after the fact. Those punishments usually trigger in my experience an unpleasant meltdown. There are some things I'd let go or you just run out of punishments. Have you tried talking to him in a calm moment about how disappointed you are when he misbehaves like this? Explaining to him how this sort of thing will hold him back from achieving things and having friends etc. I think you do have to tackle the pushing quite strongly. You do not want to be facing off with him when he's a six foot teenager.

I always told my ASD/ADHD son that the world wouldn't bend for him and he'd have to bend for the world. I also think it's important to compliment your child on good things they do rather than always being critical. I admit at times it was hard to think of something and I was once reduced to saying he was very good at finding the fastest, shortest supermarket check out queue. Strangely he was quite proud of that and always insisted on choosing the supermarket queue.

I did find some outdoor exercise was good. An hour or two on a horse kept him focussed because the horse certainly isn't going to be making allowances for ADHD if he wasn't riding it properly. But even just a walk round a park can be helpful.

Is he keeping up at school? If not, think about some extra tutoring. It is absolutely miserable to be left behind and struggling. One of my children was effortlessly brilliant and the other had a real struggle. The struggler had a lot of extra tutoring and support. He said the extra work was worth it not to be struggling in class all the time and being able to pass his exams. He has a reasonable university degree and is currently doing a post graduate diploma for a vocational qualification. We did medicate but more for him to concentrate on studying than behaviour modification. It might be a possibility for you though for behaviour.

A lot of children do discover coping mechanisms when they get older. To do lists, wall planners, always putting their keys in the same place, working with only the relevant papers on their desk etc. They learn a few more social graces. My son just naturally stopped jumping up and down on the spot like Tigger as he got older.

He is praised a lot, and treated a lot. He is doing well at school! Which is a relief. He’s very bright, enjoys learning, he really struggled in school Years R and 1 but found his groove a bit more in Year 2 and that is when it became clear he had ADHD (I’ve always known he’s ND) and so I was able to really start advocating for him.

OP posts:
Arran2024 · 18/03/2025 21:42

itscoldplay · 18/03/2025 21:36

What is NVR please?

I find the boundaries in a kind way very difficult, my DS can be very intimidating. I am not shouty 90% of the time. But I am very very firm. This still seems to escalate things, but often DS escalates himself even if I have walked away. I also have a duty to stop him from making too much noise for example to our neighbours.

It stands for non violent resistance. It is really for the most challenging kids but I mentioned it because the techniques are still all about de-escalation, reconciliation etc, even for kids at this level, not more and more punishment. Most parents wont need NVR - have you read The Explosive Child? Anyway, here is a link www.nvrparenting.com/

itscoldplay · 18/03/2025 21:45

BertieBotts · 18/03/2025 11:52

I definitely have to limit tech for my ADHD kids because they have no sense of reasonable limits. However, I agree with those saying don't keep escalating punishments - I have some other suggestions which I'll add later.

First of all: I would honestly speak to the doctor about the risks/benefits of medicating at the weekend - and don't forget to consider the risks/benefits of NOT medicating, because the effect on your relationship and his self esteem is no small thing, IMO. Also, he is going to be entering puberty soon. ADHD boys and puberty can be a bit of an explosive combo. (Not always - it doesn't seem to be for my eldest). Medication is helpful in mitigating risk taking behaviour and impulsive, haven't-thought-of-the-consequences type behaviour. At ten as well, you might want to ask him what he thinks, whether he would prefer to take it every day.

I am an adult and take medication every day. I have ADHD every day and I need the medication every day. Not everyone needs breaks to keep it effective - TBH, I find that if I take a break when I get a cold or something, so maybe 2-3 times a year, which makes sense to me because I just want to rest and sleep on those days anyway, then it's enough. In fact it is highly individual as well - some people find that the days they don't take medication, they retain some residual effect (perhaps from not being exhausted/burnt out from trying to deal with life without enough executive functioning). But some people find that the days they don't take medication, the symptoms come back almost worse in a kind of rebound effect, like someone trying to quit smoking is grumpy and short tempered on the first couple of days not only because of withdrawal, but also because their brain is expecting the nicotine to make the extra dopamine for them. This seems to be the case for me (when I've had a day off for other reasons e.g. supply shortages)

If you're getting a resurgence of symptoms, especially extra-hyper or extra-grumpy in the evenings as the medication wears off, this could be what they call stimulant rebound and again talk to the doctor about this because you can mitigate it a bit e.g. by giving a very small booster dose to sort of taper off the medication as it runs out rather than it all leaving his body at once and leaving him with a total lack of dopamine (I think that's a bit oversimplified, but it was how it was explained to me). The other thing you can do is try to counter this with some sugary food or drink.

90% of ADHD parenting IME is mood management and being proactive in order that you NOT react in the moment, because they can so very easily get into a state where they're sort of exuding this force and it will wind you up if you're not careful. Because once you get into this pattern you're just escalating each other, this is highly rewarding (even though that seems counter-intuitive because it feels horrible/stressful and often ends up with an out of proportion punishment). Brain chemistry wise, it is HIGHLY rewarding and the more you get into this pattern the more you will see it, and it will get more and more explosive. He likely cannot break the pattern - you have to be the adults and do that.

So in terms of how to make that happen - a mixture of things.

Understanding ADHD - I haven't read a lot of books aimed at parents understanding their ADHD kids, because I was diagnosed first, but Sarah Templeton's book How Not To Murder Your ADHD Kid is excellent - if the title makes you chuckle. If the title makes you roll your eyes or feel faintly horrified, it might not be the right book for you. But it's very good especially as a starting point, explaining the reasoning behind a lot of common behaviours and offering a couple of strategies for each. Honestly, although there wasn't a lot new here for me, it was a helpful reminder and I do use some of the things she suggests in here. (If you don't think it's the book for you and/or in addition, maybe look at Russell Barkley's 12 Principles book, as I remember he described this as he spent lockdown distilling his life's work into the most important, clear points that he could, and his talks have always been very helpful for me.)

ADHD Dude and Seth Perler and Russell Barkley's videos online are all really good as well.

Structure your discipline system and make it MUCH clearer and more predictable, and heavily skewed towards rewarding preferred behaviour rather than punishing unwanted behaviour. What that means is that rather than react in the moment to behaviour that you don't like or when you feel like you're losing a power struggle you pull the parent card and enact a ban, you want to sit down with DH and decide on some specific behaviours to work on, clarify between you what exactly it means (e.g. don't use something vague like "being cheeky", but specify words, actions, tone of voice etc - though Sarah reckons tone is really difficult to police because they don't realise they are doing it and so could be unfair). If there's something you currently tend to take away as punishment, flip this and get him to earn the thing back with positive behaviour instead. So for example, if he's normally allowed up to 1 hour of screen time a day, break the day into 6 sections and for each section, if he can manage to avoid the unwanted behaviour he can earn 15 minutes of screen time. Don't expect perfection as you are working on changing habits, and start at a point where it's achievable for him to get at least some of them.

There is a really excellent free course on Coursera called The ABCs of Everyday Parenting which goes into how to work out the positive opposite behaviour to encourage rather than a negative to discourage, how to work towards behaviours you're a long way from, how to use rewards type schemes and other acknowledgements like praise in the most effective way. It also has a short section on consequences. It's very good and it's similar to the kinds of parent training which are effective in ADHD.

For behaviours you're not currently working on, it helps to just deal with them neutrally - either ignore or redirect or de-escalate while keeping everyone safe as much as possible. But IME having a behaviour system like above can also help take conflict away from in-the-moment behaviour.

Understanding regulation and how to judge your child's mood/mental state can help a lot too - this is a bit of a bugbear at the moment because the word regulation is everywhere and most people using it aren't really understanding the proper definition, they are sort of using it as a kind of shorthand to mean "my child is calm [regulated] vs agitated [dysregulated]" - which is sort of right but it's a bit more complicated in reality. I won't go into the full explanation here but I would recommend the book Big Baffling Behaviours by Robyn Gobbel as I really like her animal "brain" metaphor and I find her descriptions of how to recognise each "level" of dysregulation and what to do at each state to be extremely helpful. The other thing to look at here is sensory input - find out what types of sensory input help your child to regulate and what they might be seeking especially with hyperactive type behaviour. This I've found difficult to find good cohesive info in one place, but I've read some helpful things on The OT Butterfly and Occuplaytional Therapist. I think OT would be useful for this but I don't know how easy it is to access. I get the sense that understanding sensory input can help when you have a child for whom "get their energy out" is unpredictable or doesn't work at all.

But sometimes this can also be as simple as the fact that ADHD children often don't pay very good attention to their own bodies so they don't notice easily if they are hungry, thirsty, need the toilet, tired, hot/cold etc. He might seem to be a bit old to have to prompt these things but think about whether any of them might be an issue and if so, try prompting or offering so that they are happening regularly. I often find with my 6yo if he's suddenly in an antagonistic mood it's because he needs the toilet and has been ignoring it for ages.

This is all brilliant, thank you. I’m going to take a photo and really look at strategies based on what you’ve advised.

OP posts:
itscoldplay · 18/03/2025 21:53

Itisalwayspossibletobekind · 18/03/2025 18:41

I think that many of us have seen that OP is not actually self reflecting on many of the excellent points that have been raised here, in a way to try and enrich her understanding of how her little boy is struggling, nor the harm which she is doing with the way she is currently handling him. It also seems that he is being punished more harshly for things he is clearly not being understood with. There have also been responses where OP has said she has lost her temper e.g. with his behaviour at times of transitions. It's well known that transitions are especially tough for ND children/ adults, and as a parent of an ND child (who is also medicating for this), most of us would hope that OP would be factoring in the additional challenges these every day (predictable) situations present. Not coming down on her poor kid like a ton of bricks, and telling him that it's basically his fault if his friends don't like him. We know that social relationships are challenging for ND kids, who need extra scaffolding to build and maintain them, so responding like this to the lad, who has basically just attempted to enlist his Mum's help with a plea, is actually cruel.

OP has been working all day and out at an activity club for 2 hours with said DS, and only now having the chance to look at the pages of posts that this thread has moved on to.

Thank you everyone who has replied helpfully. I will be looking at all posts in detail when I get the chance.

OP posts:
Friendtotheanimals · 18/03/2025 21:56

I am a psychologist who works with children and parents. Your parenting does not sounds abusive at all but you and your partner do sound stressed.

My thoughts:
I would recommend, that tech bans not be too long. Rather, keep tech bans to a day only, or better still even a few hours. Young people, especially those with short attention spans can't easily comprehend the longer time spans.

Despite some of the comments here that indicate children with ADHD should not ever have tech taken away from them, there is no evidence to indicate it is harmful to use as a consequence for a short period (as outlined above).

In general, try as much as possible to reward appropriate behaviours, ie. give at least three times as much praise as corrective feedback. Catch him doing the right thing and comment on it. And, without giving undue attention to, ie. not too much talk, kindly correct inappropriate behaviours. When you give a small consequence say, 'I am sure you'll make a good choice next time.' 123 Magic is a very useful evidence based resource which works for children of all abilities.

BertieBotts · 18/03/2025 22:57

Yes agree any deescalation tips like NVR are helpful. A lot of the advice in Big Baffling Behaviours is like this. Conscious Discipline very good for this also.

Having a boundary while being kind is tricky if you're thinking of a boundary as being a sort of line which if they cross you have to give some kind of punishment. That will absolutely escalate, it's like a red rag to a bull! It doesn't help to think of it like that IME. One of the biggest things in Sarah Templeton's book is about establishing that you're on your child's side. You can't do that if you're constantly set up in a situation where you're basically daring them to cross the boundary and then (metaphorically) slamming down on them when they do.

Think of boundaries as things you can control like - console time starts after chores are done (or whatever it is). For any screen thing you can put some kind of control on it these days. If you have to go old school - hide the remote, plug, charger, or ask for the device to be physically handed in so that they get access to it again tomorrow. Or learn how to disable things off the wifi. (Google e.g. BT router controls 2025). Ideally, make a sort of contract/agreement together and then use the tech controls/parental controls as a sort of reminder of it, rather than using them as the hard limit otherwise they will just find a way around it. But at 10 you're still just about within the territory that you can go over his head if you need to -you can work towards a more collaborative system once the overall temperature in the house has cooled down, IME. First priority is reducing direct conflict.

This is why a structured behaviour system works better, as well, because then it isn't you making a decision in the moment based on how pissed off you are, which will always be perceived as an attack. It's clear - meet these expectations, get that reward. It's not a battle of wills, you against him. It's you AND him against the chart or the rule. Don't meet the expectations, I can't give it to you this time, but let's try again next time. Making it low stakes and lots of chances to try again also helps build resilience against failing. I know I've struggled before with reward type things because I feel so hard for my kids when they really really try and they don't get it. I feel like a total monster. I've read all the stuff against reward charts. I feel like it goes against so much of the stuff which is important to me like support/skill build/scaffold - but OTOH I've also found that "I'm sorry, you've lost it for tonight, but we can try again tomorrow" is an absolute gamechanger in terms of showing them:-

There IS ALWAYS another chance. Very, very, very few mistakes in life are irreversible and permanent. In ADHD this is SUCH an important message to learn because their feelings can be so very big and overwhelming and losing/failing is so hard. I feel this myself which is why I struggle with it.

I can give a clear message about the behaviour without losing it myself and displaying some totally inappropriate behaviour that I don't want them to copy. I remember the very first thing I ever used this "We can try again tomorrow" on which was when my eldest, then four, used to play absolute hell at bedtime, taking HOURS to go to sleep which I now realise was because he genuinely didn't know how to relax in order to fall asleep. Sometimes I would get SO ANGRY with him and it would be awful and I would absolutely not want him to think that the way I ended up reacting was OK. I felt guilty on the night I walked out (to him crying) saying no, sorry, that's all your chances, we can try again tomorrow - but I felt less guilty than the times I shouted or cried, and he actually fell asleep faster as well.

And, that you believe in them. That you truly know they can do it. If you're focused on what they've done wrong and lecturing them about it, then they can build this image of themselves as a terrible person. Most of the time they actually know why they shouldn't do that thing. If you're focused on "Try again next time" and/or well done for the things they have got right, then it's more neutral or even positive. When I was in the thick of it with DS1 we used to have these talks at bedtime where we'd go through the rewards he wanted to aim for the next day and sort of work out a game plan for them. It completely changed the narrative and was brilliant.

For ADHD, it also keeps the goals much more focused and closer. "I have to be good and keep my temper forever and ever and ever and never hurt anyone ever again?!?!" - this is impossible because it's much too big. Or they've failed once and so it doesn't matter if they do it right now because they've already got into trouble anyway. "I have to keep my temper just for this afternoon" - this is MUCH more doable. And plenty of repetition of this afternoon, that evening, this morning, this school day - all of this is building all good practice and highlighting their successes and it's not undone by the times where they didn't quite make it, because they are all separated out. And somehow it comes to a point where of course they can imagine never hurting anyone ever again because it's normal and easy for them to avoid it by managing conflict and frustration in other ways.

But also, I have thought about it a lot and there is really no reason that you can't work on skills and scaffold, adjust expectations/support relative to their current mood, and understand that they are having a stress response and deescalate, while also having a behaviour system in place. I do think you need to calibrate it carefully and reduce or break down the expectations if they are having trouble meeting them. Arguably, you don't need any behaviour system if you're building skills and problem solving (and I also love the Ross Greene approach, and think there is a huge huge argument for increasing kid autonomy but that would be a whole other post, although you can also certainly involve your child in setting up the rules, goals and rewards) - but if you're currently frequently getting to a point where you're (both parents) losing control and doling out punishments or even yelling horrible things because you just need to DO SOMETHING, then a behaviour system gives you something TO DO to replace that, and I think that is an enormous, enormous thing, an extremely important one and one which is sometimes overlooked by some advocates of other methods. Some people continue to use a positive behaviour system until their children are adults and don't need it any more. Some people use it as a stepping stone and once they are more familiar with more collaborative methods they find they don't need it any more. But I think it's a really helpful thing which does not need to be presented as a choice between this or a more collaborative/bottom up approach.

YipYapYop · 18/03/2025 23:15

It sounds to me like he was under stimulated and that's why he was pestering his sister. Being under stimulated is very distressing when you have ADHD.

I think long term both you and he will have way better outcomes if you focus on giving him strategies about how to add safe/fun stimulation when he starts to notice that he is under stimulated.

Arran2024 · 18/03/2025 23:21

Friendtotheanimals · 18/03/2025 21:56

I am a psychologist who works with children and parents. Your parenting does not sounds abusive at all but you and your partner do sound stressed.

My thoughts:
I would recommend, that tech bans not be too long. Rather, keep tech bans to a day only, or better still even a few hours. Young people, especially those with short attention spans can't easily comprehend the longer time spans.

Despite some of the comments here that indicate children with ADHD should not ever have tech taken away from them, there is no evidence to indicate it is harmful to use as a consequence for a short period (as outlined above).

In general, try as much as possible to reward appropriate behaviours, ie. give at least three times as much praise as corrective feedback. Catch him doing the right thing and comment on it. And, without giving undue attention to, ie. not too much talk, kindly correct inappropriate behaviours. When you give a small consequence say, 'I am sure you'll make a good choice next time.' 123 Magic is a very useful evidence based resource which works for children of all abilities.

You genuinely think that 123 Magic works?!!!!! I'm sorry but that kind of suggestion is why so many of us with challenging children find the help available at camhs, school etc pretty useless.

YipYapYop · 18/03/2025 23:22

Basically what I'm saying is that behaviour is his way of meeting a need which he can't meet in a socially appropriate way yet. If you can support him to notice what he needs in the moment, and learn how to get his needs met in a way that doesn't involve behaviours that upset others, everything would be better for all of you as it wouldn't escalate.

YipYapYop · 18/03/2025 23:45

I'm quite surprised by some of the posts on here tbh. I have autism and ADHD and if I were a child struggling to sit still while others were watching a film and therefore was causing annoyance through my behaviour, what I probably need in that moment is help from an adult to understand what is happening with me and how to regulate myself and feel better. Rather than increasing punishment where I become more and more dysregulated and lose something I care about for weeks. That would do nothing to teach me how to handle that need arising next time, and would ruin my self esteem.

Friendtotheanimals · 18/03/2025 23:49

Arran2024 · 18/03/2025 23:21

You genuinely think that 123 Magic works?!!!!! I'm sorry but that kind of suggestion is why so many of us with challenging children find the help available at camhs, school etc pretty useless.

Yes, I genuinely do think it works, otherwise I would no professional basis on which to have suggested it.

It is often a good starting point for parents. Its basic premises of encouraging parents to stay calm, unemotional and not overexplain while communicating desired behaviours has been found to help with challenging behaviours for many children with a range of needs.

I have used it with many families and found it has worked well in helping to reduce the frequency of changing behaviours and parental stress.

I am very sorry to hear your experiences with this particular resource have not been positive.

Ritzybitzy · 19/03/2025 06:20

verysmellyjelly · 18/03/2025 10:03

@Ritzybitzy Pretending a child isn’t actually doing anything wrong and “reframing” obnoxious behaviour as fine is about the least helpful thing you can do. Of course I’m not suggesting harsh punishment; I’d never support that for any child, ND or otherwise. But the ND parenting often advocated on Mumsnet is unrealistic about what the adult world is like when the ND child grows up.

I didn’t say anything about pretending a child has done nothing wrong. I said punishing a child doesn’t help them learn to regulate. What does help is teaching regulation strategies. Make life accessible. Teach them to recognise when they’re escalating. That will help. Punishment will not.

YipYapYop · 19/03/2025 08:31

Ritzybitzy · 19/03/2025 06:20

I didn’t say anything about pretending a child has done nothing wrong. I said punishing a child doesn’t help them learn to regulate. What does help is teaching regulation strategies. Make life accessible. Teach them to recognise when they’re escalating. That will help. Punishment will not.

Yep!

Oioisavaloy27 · 19/03/2025 08:48

itscoldplay · 18/03/2025 21:31

He isn’t medicated over the weekend because his paediatrician said he shouldn’t be.

On the weekend he has sports clubs both mornings. Otherwise the usual, a mixture of swing family or friends, days out as a family, games, errands if we have to (rarely). Downtime at home sometimes, he asks for more, he’s always asking for “quiet time” home, but that means non stop screens, after which his behaviour takes a nose dive.

If screen time causes his behaviour to nose dive the you need to distract him from that and probably go out for some exercise instead.