Does anyone else struggle with authority?

[Flowersinthehood]

Not as in 'end up in a riot van' struggle!
I suppose I've never liked being told what to do. I have struggled with employers over the years as there's sometimes no logic in their decision making at times. But I've never been sacked as I'm a really hard worker, and I pick things up quickly. Actually I forgot I was sacked for not following the rules in a call centre.
Yesterday I had a bit of a run in with my manager. I wanted them to let me finish off something but it had to be passed on to someone else, as is the protocol. I asked if I could just have one week more on it, and she said well that is not your decision to make. I do get that, but that sort of saying or message just makes me feel pure rage.
And I don't know where that rage comes from.
It's a bit like parking tickets. I just will not pay them. I call up and I appeal each one and it ends up going to court but it's like I can't surrender as I just don't agree with the money grabbing nature of it.
Yet I'm not like this with friends and family, I'm always described as laid back. I never complain in restaurants or scrimp on tips. I will do anything for anyone, if I see the point.
I comply with school rules for my children and speak to teachers with respect.
But when I was at school one year they had to set up a separate classroom and I would do all my work in there, as I couldn't be told what to do. I did all my work and got good grades but I needed to be the one to direct myself.
Does anyone else feel similar? I'm not autistic as far as I'm aware. I am kind of demand avoidant and I can't cope if I know people don't like me. It eats me away inside. I am not dominant in relationships. It's more institutional or work place stuff I struggle with.

I don't think that's as much not suiting monogamy as not accepting that to have productive relationships with other people of any type, we can't always do exactly what we want, because consideration and fairness to others has to go into the mix. You can't expect to simply take from others (your partners company for a film when you've nothing better) and not give back (keeping your partner company with a film as agreed, despite a better offer) as its entirely one sided and other people don't like it.

I find it interesting, regarding the parking thing, that you choose to get angry at "unfair" parking rules instead of getting angry about the more structural problem that your employer seems to need you to use your own car for work, that the system is set up so that you have to find parking "privately" instead of having some sort of work permit set up, and that this isn't compatible with the sort of work you have where you can't easily foresee how long you need to be parked for. Also the fundamental problem is that parking cars takes up so much space that people who really need it can't find it. I.e. the problem is cars or rather the fact that too many people drive everywhere. I detect in your complaint here a bog standard, not very original, car driver entitlement syndrome (CDES) - including the argument that parking fines impact poor people and are therefore injust (ok, I'm paraphrasing you slightly for effect, I know), disregarding the fact that the really poor people can't afford a car so the argument only applies for the slightly poor people. Not the poor or disabled who don't drive and perhaps would benefit from less parking and more pavements etc. My argument is that you are perhaps not as logical as you think you are. I have a similar problem with authority and for me deconstructing a problem and looking at more angles helps.

I am a bit like this but never confrontational so it goes under the radar. I have worked out that if you do your job well, don’t make a fuss and don’t create work for other people, you are basically left to manage yourself.

Ah OK so you don't accept the expertise and authority of the professionals who diagnose ADHD because you know better :)

Or PITA

Please tell me you are not trying to compare yourself to the Suffragettes over not paying a parking ticket! How ridiculous.

It's about context OP, is the thing you are fighting really worth fighting for? Or are you just trying to show that you are in the right (even when you aren't).

I don't like a lot of rules, and I will challenge them sometimes - but I will always ask myself if it's worth the bother of arguing it, or should I let it go, as I don't want the stress or hassle. Parking fines are not a social justice issue.

It's that old adage of 'do you want to be right or do you want to be happy'... It doesn't like like all this aggro is making you very happy.

Resisting true injustice is of course incredibly important, but there is true injustice and then there’s a contrarian conviction that ‘everything I don’t like is unfair’. I feel very strongly that being able to discern between the two, and to identify what the true problem is in a situation, is part of being a functioning adult. Some rules, arbitrary as they may be, are necessary for us to live in a society in which our own needs and wants are as important, but by no means more so, than those of others.

Parking fines seems a spectacularly trivial thing with which to occupy oneself when there are so many other, more pressing social justice issues into which we can pour our energy. Being told you can’t park on private property, and being fined for doing so, is not a social justice issue - unless the conditions weren’t advertised, of course. Refusing to pay a perfectly justified parking fine does not make someone a suffragette.

We all feel the way OP describes at times, I’m sure of that. I doubt any of us has been lucky enough to never have had a crappy boss. But in my experience a belligerent co-worker can be just as bad for morale as an incompetent manager. I’ve worked with vexatious people like this in the past, and what seems to escape their attention is that they very quickly cease to be taken seriously. They become known as the manufacturers of drama with no discernment over the fights they pick, and are laughed at. Tolerated, but largely ignored because every word that comes out of their mouths is negative. Their meaningful points of argument/resistance get overlooked because they seem to argue with everything on principle.

You’re spot on. Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy is such a freeing mindset. OP spends loads of time challenging parking fines with no positive outcome when they could just pay for their parking.

Ultimately, rules are there to keep the social fabric in place. If one person breaks them and thinks they’re the exception, someone else will do that and over time it becomes pointless. I’ve just come back from a trip to Japan where despite Tokyo being the biggest city in the world, nobody had their phone on speaker on the tube, there was no litter, there was no queue jumping. Coming back to the UK after being in a society with a high level of mutual respect just reinforces to me how annoying people like OP can actually be - this doesn’t apply to me, I think it’s a stupid rule so I won’t follow it.

Currently working, so no time to read all replies, as only a 5 minute break. 😉

It's an incredibly strong sense of justice, needing to know the logic behind rules and decisions and also the fact that no human being is "more" just because they have more responsibility and are paid more. A huge need and drive for autonomy in life.

It's also an ask me, don't tell me to do something, which I see as common courtesy.

I am autistic, ADHD, demand avoidant etc. I have a wonderful line manager who understands me, and helps me work the way I need to. He's getting fantastic results from me.

I agree with the well balanced posts from @HornyHornersPinkyWinky , @PaintCatsPaint and @Penguinmouse

Your post resonates so much with me OP, and I’ve been aware of this for a very long time and have wondered why. In my case, I think it is probably due to an over authoritarian upbringing/CPTSD . I’ve also wondered about neurodivergence but hope someone diagnosed as Neurodivergent will come along to tell me that they don’t ever question authority figures.
But there is a lot of poor leadership about. Shouldn’t it be questioned? Or is it the way in which it is done that is important? Surely that is the only basis for change?
There are many more people who will question a person’s authority, but only behind their back. So I think it is fear that keeps people in their places. I think anger trumps fear and that is what puts us in the awkward squad. And the anger goes back to upbringing.
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Yes, I am like this. It is in my upbringing, I was always taught that just because someone is in authority, it does not make them right. We raised out dc this way, too. I think it is actually very important to understand, know your own mind and question authority.

@Penguinmouse huge suicide and unhappiness in Japan as well. No country is perfect.

This. That example is not about monogamy but about consideration for the other person.
There's a fundamental selfishness at play when you resent the earlier plans basically because you've now had a 'better' offer, it comes down to wanting to do what you want but being subconsciously aware it's a shitty thing to do to bin off the previously made plans. You just don't like feeling guilty for wanting to do something inconsiderate

Yup. Authority for me meant abuse. Fortunately, after years of therapy, I am aware when I’m triggered and feeling 14 yrs old, so don’t act on my feelings, I ground instead.
That being said, it has meant self employment and choosing a lifestyle plus schools, that aren’t authoritarian.

My dad used to say that rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

If you don't understand the reason for the rule, how do you know when to follow it, how important it is etc.

Within sensible limits, I think rules should be sensible and explainable, and punishments justifiable and reasonable, and that adults should be able to cope with that.

Eg. for a toddler "don't open the front door" for a child "don't open the front door unless I'm in the house and know you're doing it", for a teen "don't open the front door if you're alone in the house and you don't know/weren't expecting the person at the door" and for an adult it's fine to open the front door. - reasonable rules with obvious explanations. Just giving a blanket 'no' with no context is for toddlers. Adults can deal with nuance.

That’s a lot to do with their crazy work ethics. They run people into the ground so they either conk over through sheer overwork (they’ve even got a name for it - Karoshi) or end the relentless hamsterwheel themselves.

I don’t like being told what to do but that doesn’t mean I don't want rules in place. But those rules have to make sense and are not just some power trip for someone ‘above’ you.

My little sister was diagnosed with ODD - Oppositional Defiance Disorder. ‘d never heard of it before but she couldn’t be told what to do at school either.

I'm always amazed at how subservient office workers are, working diligently on pointless assignments, carrying on despite minute bonuses or no pay rises. I suppose there is the carrot of promotion and the stick of being fired that keeps them in this state.

@BunnyLake it's also due to the pressure to conform, and become a 'salary man'. I wouldn't say we should aim to be like Japan, nor America which is the extreme end of individualistic, libertarian type beliefs. Maybe somewhere in the middle.

Bills have to be paid. Do you really think people would just suck it up if they didn’t have to. You’re obviously in a privileged position if you’re always amazed by this.

I can relate to this. I don't mind having someone above me and following things are meant to be done , if it's in a respectful way. It's the managers that think they are somehow better because ths postion is higher and look down on others , disrespectfully demanding things are done or criticising work not done properly . I walked out of a job , having to deal with rude and unnecessary demands. No thanks , why should I work in a place like that. Also some people in authority when you go for appointments ,talking down at you. I can't stand that. I went to the citizens advice, will never go back , acting very snobby and snooty. Some people think they are gods gift to the world. Yet I know others at the top or ones who are insanely rich and I get on really well with them , they are humble and authentic.

@BunnyLake but we could all just say no. The same with the parking fines, if we just said that we weren't paying they wouldn't be able to afford to take us all to court. You can delay and cost them as much money as you need by requesting the information they send to be provided in a different language (Finnish), or by requesting a payment plan of 44p a month or requesting the managing director replies or that they send you a photograph of the signage. It means they take less money as they've had to pay staff to deal with a huge amount of queries and requests. Small acts of rebellion, people can judge it as pettiness but you know, it might harm their profits.

This is genuinely so strange. Why are you so bothered by a car parking company? They own the land, you want to park. Are you this weird when you do your weekly shop too?

@Penguinmouse no because I get what I'm paying for; I have a choice. I can choose whether to buy the lurpak or whether it's too expensive. I hate that these companies bully people. No other companies operate in this way.