Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

But you said yourself your friend ‘s child is out of control in spite of punishments etc. That isnt gentle parenting. Are you just saying you think children need physical discipline, and anything less you consider gentle parenting?

I was smacked on the back of the legs as a child (never very hard, but enough for a bit of a sting) and I can say it hasn't traumatised me and i have great relationships with my parents now.

However, i don't think i could ever actually smack my 2 year old DD. I'm not 100% against it, but i don't actually think i could bring myself to do it.

Im looking forward to the day when England finally bans smacking and we can hopefully stop having these ridiculous conversations about it being okay when all evidence shows it isn’t.

Hitting a child is always wrong. There is not excuse. It’s abusive

Yes it is bad to assault your child because you don't know any other way to parent.

What I said was that despite the gentle parenting punishments she has tried it has made no difference, so what else does she try? she had read books on the subject and nothing works.

I think a child just needs to be raised properly to respect themselves , others , their environment and social order . You don't need anything other than time , nurturing and effort . Too many kids these days have no parental involvement and are left to drag themselves up .

but is it assault? in that case I guess 80% of Gen X's were victims of assault and are traumatised......as a Gen X I can say I definitely am not.

In your opinion, I can say as a Gen X I had the occasional smack to keep me in line from my parents and it didn't affect me.

There's a big leap between gentle parenting and smacking though?!

My children are very well behaved.

I was pretty strict with them when they were little but I have never raised a hand to them and rarely even raised my voice.

It is entirely possible to provide good discipline without hurting/scaring your children.

wait until they are 5-8 and your mind will change!

It doesn't have to be a choice between gentle parenting or smacking. I disagree with both. Why does everything have to be labelled, gentle parenting, permissive parenting, blah blah blah.

Just set some common sense rules and stick to your guns ffs, without the need for smacking!

Hitting someone smaller and weaker than you, who is totally reliant on you and can't escape anywhere simply because you're angry with them is absolutely assault, what makes you think it isn't?

but could this be down to the nature/personality of your children, in the same way some babies don't sleep and scream all night and some sleep straight through for 7 hours......you could be one of those smug parents that has had it easy.

Try having a child who is so stubborn they would rather spite themselves than do what they are told no matter what the potential punishment.

then why is it still legal in england to 'smack' children?

It's because most people don't do gentle parenting properly. You don't replace hitting with yelling or threats or screentime. You replace it by talking to your child about their feelings / about why things were wrong.

I would not say that gentle parenting has failed. If done correctly the child will mostly turn out ok.

The introduction of screens/social media and the loss of children being able to play outside has had far more of an impact. You learnt your social skills from hanging out. How to talk to elders, don't pick fights, sharing, how to grow and keep friendships etc Coupled with the loss of the creative/performance arts in schools which were great for learning soft skills such as team work, perseverance and resilience.

There will always be a group of children that for whatever reason do not respond to their parents/elders. This group of children are the ones that end up in prison and even then some come out worse than they went in. In reality all you can do is keep them away from other people. It's sad but you can't make someone a better person unless they want to change.

Well in that case they won't respond to a gentle slap either?

I'm not sure why you're so adamant that children must be hit, but it's strange.

Your friends child is receiving consequences for his bad behaviour. Probably consequences he finds more inconvenient than a gentle slap. Unless you think your friend should be severely injuring her child, I'm not sure what you think would change here.

Your friend is having a hard time with her child's behaviour. This is probably a time she could do with some kindness and support from you, rather than you advocating that she assaults her child

@Zod666 how are you defining “gentle parenting”?

It sounds like you think “normal parenting” is hitting your child and “gentle parenting” is everything else. Is that your definition?

I would argue that

• “permissive parenting” is no punishments or consequences (eg toy gets broken - so what - buy another one)
• “gentle parenting” is natural consequences only (eg if a toy gets broken, the child no longer has that toy, or has to help fix it)
• “strict parenting” is rules and punishment unrelated to the transgression (eg trip to park is cancelled if toy gets broken)
• “corporal punishment” is hitting a child to discipline them (you broke the toy, I’ll cause you pain)

while that sounds fine in theory, try that with a toddler, or even a child 5-8 in age, you just cannot reason with some children.

Forget the term gentle parenting. Parents who set no boundaries raise children that are out of control. Parents who don't want to put in the effort engaging with their child and rely on screens to do the parenting also have children that struggle with behaviour. Parents who raise children through fear by either hitting them or shouting at them when they do not meet their standards raise children who often grow upto be anxious adults and sometimes struggle with forming normal relationships.

Parenting involves setting boundaries, accepting it is normal for your child not to agree with every decision you make but making it for their benefit. It involves engaging with your child from the start. Sometimes you do lose your cool as children can be difficult and challenge you - when this happens, you apologise and reflect on how you can improve next time.

I am far from perfect, have definitely lost my cool with my children on occasion but cannot possibly imagine hitting them when this happens - and the oldest is over 8 OP.

Smacking has absolutely nothing to do with discipline and everything to do with controlling via fear. There is a wealth of research showing that children who are smacked are actually more likely to become involved in crime and anti-social behaviours. As for citing Venerable and Thompson in relation to smacking, it was well-documented that both boys grew up in chaotic households where physical violence was the norm.

Smacking does not work, is not effective, and is a marker of shitty parenting. If you hit your spouse, you'd rightly be arrested so why would you think it acceptable to hit a child?

I would say you clearly are because no level-headed adult would think that smacking a defenseless child is anything but abhorrent.

Er, plenty of people have never smacked their children.

Your 'friend' isn't a gentle parent, gentle parenting just means not using fear, shame and aggression to get children to submit. Children still need boundaries and leadership.

I follow brat buster parenting on Instagram and it sounds awful but a LOT of what she talks about is actually gentle parenting. No shouting and smacking - just strong leadership, lots of positive interactions etc. She has amazing tips if you actually want to help your friend.