Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

DD on the other hand after looking into it worked out she was definitely not ready to go and handle that at 16 because she just isn’t and now there are 2 years to get her ready if she wants to

Maybe you just have a introverted/ cautious child.
or one who enjoys things other than festivals?

I don't think it's anything to do with either smacking a child or not. It's that "before", we all ran around outside, had to come up with stuff to do, felt safe (mostly), talked to people.... and now a lot of kids are on screens, video games, phones, social media. Even from baby age. Not a lot of outside freedom. I'd say that and the fact schools are so much worse than they were.

I have a child who is capable of working out what she likes and doesn’t like and working out her own boundaries that is the whole point - I knew she wasn’t ready and she then also worked it out whst was right for her rather than following the crowd.

and music festivals would very much be here thing - based on the concert tickets I have bought

What is “being ready” to go to a music festival?
Anyway, I’m sure you are the perfect parent, I’m just not sure that a child wanting to go to a music festival at 16 is an indication of low character or poor parenting. Some kids are up for it, some aren’t, same as adults really. Some kids are more adventurous than others.

I remember my uncle going into smack my cousin for hitting his younger brother. My dad quickly told my cousin off instead and told him that one day his brother would whack him back, that its better to use words to explain frustration. They are a family of all boys and physical discipline was a thing in their home. None of them have gone to ever hit their own kids though.

My dad remarked to me after that if a child is being violent how is hitting them going to stop it. Violence doesn't end violence it perpetuates it and kid's don't actually learn anything other than ending up desensitised to it. Dad instead would give you a look, then he'd give us a stern talking to to the point you felt you wanted to do better.

For my own kids I used time out. We would then talk about why it was hurtful that ds had hit his sister or why.dd2 had pulled dd1s hair. They would apologise but I didn't expect the injured party to just accept the apology and move on. If dd1 then didn't want to play with ds then fair enough. That's a consequence of his behaviour and it hit home more. It also taught dd1 that a half hearted apology isn't something she ever has to accept and that she can set her own boundaries. Like everything it is a work in progress and we do remove treats and devices but thankfully as they are getting bigger they seem to have more empathy for each other.

This!!! The hardest thing I've done is parent my 3 year old if she has done something to 'upset' me. We are all humans. If I feel hurt, frustrated, tired etc it would often be much easier to send her to her room, put her on some sort of 'naughty step' etc (so put physical distance between us), or smack her to see if that helps let out some of my anger.

The hardest thing to do is regulate myself, get on her level, try to understand what's going on, provide a safe space for her to feel what she needs to feel etc. In doing so, also teaching her that anger, frustration, fear are not 'bad' emotions that need to be ignored/squashed/forgotten.

This is the parenting that takes the most effort.

I often get comments about how lovely she is to be around, which is the highest compliment. Yes, she's sometimes a bit difficult, but she is 3!

I work with children and can often spot the parenting styles from a mile off. It's not those who have experienced 'gentle parenting' that are causing any trouble, often because they understand and respect boundaries, they understand consequences, they are more emotionally mature and, crucially, they don't live in fear.

Rather than blaming 'gentle parenting' (although as most of the posts here have proved, this is actually 'permissive parenting') let's look instead at what society is doing to parents, mostly women/mothers...

• an expensive/unaffordable childcare system that is difficult to access. Repercussions of this could include an increase in screen time or less time hands on parenting, due to trying to cram work in without the structures to support
• pressure to return to work early
• the closure of children's centres which used to be so important in helping to support and teach parents, providing them with a safe space to ask questions, etc.
• lack of funding in schools, especially in SEN. Schools don't have the staff numbers or training to support children and their parents with more complex needs, plus staff are now having to do SO much more than 'just' teach
• lack of community

We are setting parents up to fail because we don't give them the tools they need to succeed. As I said in a previous post, gentle parenting is the hardest method of parenting as it involves being able to emotionally regulate yourself and react with calmness in a well thought through way. Society doesn't support this.

So your view is that it’s perfectly normal
to hit a five-year-old.

And you also think that being hit as a child hasn’t affected you.

Evidently it has. It has made you the sort of person who hits five-year-olds.

wait until they are 5-8 and your mind will change!

My eldest is 27. I've yet to feel the need to hit him.

I agree with all this. I’d add though, All the social media gentle parenting “influencers” is another thing that society is doing to parents setting them up to fail.
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely oppose any kind of physical violence against children, and I agree with the core principles behind gentle parenting, but characters like Sarah-OS and all those insta mumfluencers have a lot to answer for with their sanctimonious and impractical advice (and “trad wife” vibes ) making women feel totally inadequate at all times .

Same, my eldest is 24.

You are massively missing the point.

It's not the not wanting to go that's important.

It's being able to take a clear headed view of what you are capable of. If you are constantly imposing your boundaries on children in an arbitrary way their default setting is going to be pushing them as far as possible. They have no skills to assess risk off their own back without an adult doing it for them.

OP has allowed her daughter to learn for herself what is right for her at this age. She may not ever want to go to a festival, she might go next year, but she isn't putting herself in an unsafe situation that she can't yet handle, which is commendable.

Thank you for summing it up - for me that is the whole ethos of gentle parenting giving your children clear boundaries and consequences but letting them grow into their own person who knows when to push and when not to.

authoritarian parenting forces the child to follow rules and never really allows them to be their own person and decide

permissivr parenting just never gives them boundaries in the first place

and no I am not perfect and yes I have at times got things wrong and it is hard

Ok I get it, but equally, why is choosing not to do something the measure of “taking a clear headed view of what [one] is capable of”, as well as the measure of a parent who has taught , rather than imposed boundaries?

Maybe taking risks is a sign of bravery, of pushing oneself, of putting oneself out there?
Maybe these are positive qualities and signs of a healthy, well adjusted child as well?

Maybe being especially cautious could equally be a symptoms of an overly sheltered child, one who lacks confidence to explore the world and independently?

Or maybe these are just symptoms of different innate personality types and not parenting at all?.

I’m sure that pp is a good parent, and her child is excellently adjusted , I’m not sure why I’m parsing really, I just think these days - in the world of social media etc- parenting has almost become like a competitive sport like everything else. The reality is that parenting is messy. Always. We all impact our children in both positive and negative ways. Our children are also all different people. While some of that may be down to parenting, there is also a huge degree to which children are who they are; they are independent , creative, autonomous people who are making their own choices in life and choosing their own pathways of growth, regardless of the actions of their parents.

I think these days we have far too much tendency to apportion inappropriate blame, as well as to give undue credit to parents. And people are way to quick to judge other parents and assume a position of superiority.

I think this can be especially true of parents who preach a particular , assumed parenting philosophy- like so-called “gentle parenting” and assume they are unique in applying it correctly.

OK, well I'll give you the opposite example- my DD4 was very nervous about going on stage for her end of year concert with her theatre group. It was massively out of her comfort zone. The year before she had decided not to go ahead with her end of year ballet performance and I just took it to mean she wasn't ready for it. I told her I'd be proud of her whatever she chose. She chose to go on and can't wait for the next one. She now says she wants to be an actor when she grows up. If I'd forced her to go on, or said I could see she was nervous so I was keeping her at home, then we wouldn't have had that positive outcome.