Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

Have you any evidence to support that claim?

If you genuinely think that the parents did everything the same, and introduced a smack instead of an alternative, you'd think that the smack is the one difference between well behaved and not?

It's a result of if poor boundaries, not holding firm, not having expectations etc that's caused this. Not the absence of smacking.

I was brought up in a violent home and I was violent in my childhood and teenage years. I wouldn't have thought twice about slapping another student at school because it was so normal at home. It took me a long time to process my childhood and heal.

I'm not an expert but I think there is a big difference between gentle parenting where you have boundaries and just letting your child be an absolute menace.

I often wonder what the advocates of hitting a child would do when hitting doesn't work. Hit them harder? Or try something else?

Thank you, that's very kind. We're doing much better these days and I appreciate your kindness.

Lots of parents have faced similar or far worse challenges, of course – and most of them without resorting to violence, thankfully!

You can have firm or non-gentle parenting without needing to smack a child. The 'gentle parent' suffers most from the approach the OP objects to.

I have 2 boys and 4 girls and never smacked any of them.

These threads always make me laugh. OP is outraged by failure of "gentle parenting" but doesn't have a clue what it is.

Actualy, there's a lot of truth to the fact that many of the children whoa re particularly disruptive and difficult in class are the same ones who get shouted at a lot at home. Not always, of course. But ask any teacher and for every child who is spoiled and annoying because mummy and daddy over indulge them, thre's another whose parents are neglectful and shouty. Random shouting and excessive, ad hoc punishments are NOT effective, for many reasons, but most especially because they're often inconsisent. Applied consistently, they might be more effective, but mostly becusethe child is just scared/cowed. Which is the same for physical punishment - if your child is obedient, it's because they're scared. I'm not sure how that seems like a good thign to you.

If you've raised the first child badly, then the other 2 will be just as bad probably.

It's fuck all to do with whether the children were smacked or not

As a gen x'er, and with gen x'er friends, I find it incredibly interesting, that around 80-90% of the time when we get together, and the drinks get flowing, at a certain point of the evening, we sit around and 'fondly' reminisce about 'the good ol' days, and the punishments we had'.

Since I've got sober, it's been impossible to ignore the very real pain and trauma that underlies these stories. Because it wasn't a 'measured smack', it was a lot bigger person who lost their temper, and was angry as fuck, taking it out on a littler person.

I have children of both sexes and have never smacked them. But they push my buttons a lot more when together than one on one, and boys are factually more likely to be violent or destructive than girls.

Gen X were holding ecstasy fueled illegal raves in fields and causing no end of annoyance to landowners back in the day. The Government had to draft extra legislation to deal with you lot! So maybe you weren't beaten enough and that was the problem!!!

I am not a fan of crap parenting disguised as "gentle parenting". And I know there are issues in schools etc at the moment (some of that likely down to Covid). So yes, parental discipline/boundaries matter. But lets not pretend Generation Z/generation alpha are the first generations to cause concerned letters to the Daily Telegraph regarding their behaviour.

You're obviously just looking to give your kids a smack. I'm an elder millennial, I was smacked as a child. I wouldn't smack my kids. It's fucking disgusting and I resent my parents for not having the emotional maturity to parent without putting their hands on me.

My DD has been challenging at times. I'm firm with her, I absolutely do not hit her. If you're smacking them it's because you've lost control. Good luck with that when they get too big for you to hit. What happens then?

Whilst I agree it should be banned, the conversations will never end. We are still discussing capital punishment!

There are plenty of ways to teach discipline and good behaviour to a child that do not involve violence. I find it absurd that hitting a child is still considered an appropriate punishment for them not doing something as they were told, but hitting an adult for the same reason is called assault.

I brought up two boys alone. They weren't hit and they have never been in any kind of trouble (not even a detention, ever). They’ve grown up to be very good people. If I can do it then it can be done.

Why on earth are you so keen to hit children?

I’m not a parent (yet!) but one thing my husband and I have been very united on after watching our nieces and nephews be raised is that we are not going to raise our children to never know a minute of discomfort. That seems to be the main focus of parenting today - constant stream of snacks, never allowed to be bored even for a second, attention given as soon as it’s demanded… it seems so bad for children and was definitely not how we were raised in the 90’s! As long as your kids are safe it’s okay to say “I’m talking right now, wait a moment.” or “You can’t have a snack right now, you’re having lunch soon.” etc. I feel very strongly on this, and it’s not the way children are raised in many other countries (and children behave much better there!)

So all the violent kids out there were raised badly?

No, it is absolutely insulting. To parents of boys, and to the boys themselves.

Why do you think the only way to control three boys is to physically discipline them? Are you so inept that you can't think of other parenting methods? It's absolutely ridiculous.

OP, you seem to be suggesting that gentle parenting is a middle class thing?
Do you have any stats to back up your assertions that it is (mainly?) middle class gentle parented children are badly behaved?

When an adult gets to a point where they are smacking their child they have lost control of themselves.

gentle parenting isn't letting children do what they want and have no boundaries, it's about having very good boundaries and rules but being in control of yourself, not being reactive (shouting/smacking) but being calm and consistent with boundaries and consequences. It's not an easy parenting style because being sleep deprived and stressed makes it very hard to stay calm and controlled and not reactive, also people tend to parent how they were parented unconsciously so if you were brought up in a shouty household you will need to make an effort not to do the same.

It is perfectly possible to provide firm boundaries for behaviour, eating, bedtimes, life in general, without smacking. The problem is that it requires skill and patience which some parents do not have. If you have it, you can (and definitely should) successfully parent without physical violence.

The problem is with the group who don't though - it's a question of the lesser of two evils really. I see useless parenting examples where kids are allowed to bully their parents into letting them not go to school, not go to bed, just play computer games all the time, etc. That's parental failure early on which may have been prevented with a single slap which could be less damaging than the lack of preparedness for adult life which has been allowed to develop instead. But obviously, if you lack parenting skill, the chances are you lack the ability to regulate slapping too.

When a parent has to use violence to terrorise children into behaving, they have failed at parenting.

So you want to teach children that smacking is wrong... By smacking them ?
Look, I don't believe in gentle parenting or whatever that is. But I don't want to physically punish my children. Getting to the point where smacking is the only option would feel like such a tremendous failure on my part, as a parent. I also don't believe children should fear adults.

But I do agree that some parents are not firm enough. Children benefit from clear boundaries, it makes them feel safe to know someone will prevent them from doing something wrong or dangerous. If your friend's reaction to being hit is "let's talk about why you're angry" rather than "you never, EVER hit anyone except in self defense", well I'm not surprised it's not working.

As in all things the answer isn't in extremes, it's in finding the right middle ground between understanding and strictness. Without anyone being hit

Agree and as a parent further down the line you will be doing yourself a favour.

The pandering is madness. Endless snacks, everything ‘now’, climbing on their parents and elbowing them and the parent just tolerates it, kids constantly interrupting adult conversations.

Basically. Yes

What causes a person to be violent? They don't wake up one day and choose that. It's from a life time of being raised poorly... Through neglect, abuse, violence etc

I am FAR LESS likely to be tempted to use a physical punishment with a child who can talk, reason, understand a consequence.

There is absolutely no need to smack a child. Any NT child can be brought up to respect strong disapproval, expressed by tone of voice/ content of a ticking off, removal of privileges, or punished/rectified eg by apologising or writing a letter or apology, or being asked to sit silently and reflect then discuss the misbehaviour.

Gentle parenting fails because it is executed badly. When done well, it’s effective. Too few parents truly understand the method and then it just becomes an abandonment of the attempt to parent

I also think that too many schools have introduced “therapeutic” behaviour policies that focus too much on reward and not enough on consequence and punishment. Natural consequences are often hard to detect for young children and therefore can be meaningless.