Gentle Parenting has failed, lets accept this.

[Zod666]

I read everyday about children's behaviour, even primary school age where they are out of control, don't fear or respect adults and this is all down to that loverly middle class BS known as 'Gentle Parenting'.

Let's just call this out for what it is, because it does not work. I have a friend who's 8 year old son does what he likes, is disrespectful, hits his mum and no amount of 'punishment' such as removal of electronic devices etc makes a blind bit of difference, he just does not care.

So how do we discipline children like this? is it really bad to give them a measured smack on the back of the legs/bum? Obviously there is a difference between a smack to correct a child and beating the hell out of them which is child abuse and should be prosecuted, and in England smacking is still legal.......

In years gone by their have always been kids that will go too far, and by this I mean the James Bulger killers who I think no amount of discipline would have changed their outcome in life, but for the majority of kids I feel we are failing them with this soft approach where there think they can do anything without repercussions.

AIBU?

Sorto clarify I'm was not suggesting that my husband is a doctor because he was smacked.

I said that because I could well imagine the comment that.might arise from the example of him stealing money from his parents.

I'm not making a comment on Chinese society, which I completely agree leaves much to be desired. I'm talking about the Chinese families and communities I am a part of，and from conversations with them to understand how and why they do things.

No, I didn't say that. Don't put words in my mouth.

I began by sharing an example of the Chinese style of parenting and saying after discussion with PIL, I could see some of where there were coming from.

To suggest for a moment that I am advocating, neglecting, sexually abusing and beating children children is unfair anf maybe I am misinterpreting here and if I'll take that. To shut me up.

I know you won't like this response.

But my grandfather smacked me on occasion, he was in fact the reason for my success.

My mother knocked the hell of me for anything and everything, I at no point made any comments suggesting anyone should be smacked more, suggested that societies ills are because we don't smack enough, again simply sharing my experience and thoughts.

But, I'm beginning to see that, the response to that here is to suggest I have said all kinds of things I haven't said

Are you still in touch with your mother? How would you say your DGF's smacking caused your success?

@MrsRobinsonAlphaCentauri the thing is, we can't really have one without the other. We have to look at what behaviours are desirable and what behaviours need correcting. We also need to look at whole cohorts , not just the ones who made it (and I'm not talking about just financially successful here).

The people doing the smacking, will always find justification. On top of that, if the kid turns out well? See, we knew we were right, it didn't do you any harm etc. If they don't turn up well? See, he/she was always trouble/incorrigible/we had no choice. There also tends to be a huge lack of introspection into their own behaviour and how it may have caused any issues, because they "had the best intentions".

One of mother's biggest lamentations/jokes (even now) is that she didn't smack me more as a child. She genuinely believes that. Am I doctor? No(much to her disappointment).I am however, a perfectly functioning (most times) adult, with a job (even if not a great one), a family and a home.

I see her, rarely but I do occasionally see her at family events. It's not known in my wider family.

I'm not suggesting there is a direct correlation between my grandfathers smacking and my success.

But I'm sure that those who do struggle and were smacked, if it was done the way my grandfather implemented it. That perhaps three were other contributing factors also.

I shall say it again, I'm not suggesting that smacking leads to success, I'm suggesting that people implement it for a variety of reasons that doesn't mean they are all child abusers

I'm not on a crusade to convince the world to adopt smacking.

I commented on her initially because of a post that said anyone who they used the word hit, I would use the word smack, (you may disagree). Should be visited by social services because they are awful.

I simply wanted to suggest that that is to simplistic a view. That was all, and I kept posting because almost every response I have had is these people are awful child abusers who don't deserve children.

My grandfather smacked me in occasion,he was not evil, he was not a child abuser, he was a man who loved his granddaughter and removed her from a situation of real abuse and genuinely wanted what was best for her.

PIL, the same

And so thank you for responding thoughtfully and not simply, trying to imply I advocate neglect, sexual abuse or beating kids up

If my husband hit my child because he took some food off someone's else's plate, i would be absolutely furious with my husband. Tell them again, prevent the child from touching the food by blocking with your hand, remove the child or move the food. Four options right there that don't involve hitting. It's pretty simple - Don't lose control of yourself and hit a child. Can't believe this needs to be said in 2025. I mean, my husband wouldn't hit a child because he's a good, kind man, although he's not a doctor.

Clearly being smacked as a child himself did your husband harm because he's grown up to think it's ok to hit children.

Would he hit a patient if they weren't co-operating? Why not?

And yes i will call it hitting because that's what it is. Sorry if it makes you uncomfortable that your husband saw fit to hit your child and you did nothing.

Cambridge dictionary definition:

smack
verb
uk /smæk/ us /smæk/

[ T ]
to hit someone or something forcefully with the flat inside part of your hand, producing a short, loud noise, especially as a way of punishing a child.

@MrsRobinsonAlphaCentauri it sounds as if your grandfather was more appropriate in how and why he applied his sanctions, and that his intention was to guide you in a better direction.

But the fact remains that he could have accomplished this without hitting you. Culturally and in that time it was probably the norm, but in this day and age we know a great deal more about the impact of hitting children on their future prospects. And so we shouldn't do it.

Party baggage as is your right. I have no doubt your husband is a good kind man. I won't say more because it won't get us anywhere.

They are synonyms. Smacking means hitting. It's just a cutesy word we use because we KNOW it's awful to hit our kids so we just change the word to "smacking" and think that makes it OK. It doesn't.

There is legislation going through parliament to make smacking illegal in England. There's an AIBU thread on it. The OP, like you, is in favour of smacking. The majority are against, as in this thread.

@pointythings thank you for answering, I take your point.

I merely suggest that is the culture and viewpoint of many Chinese, would I have smacked my son, probably not,(I wasn't there for info). My husband and I have had many conversations since. Chinese culture may disagree with the British view on these things. (They do!). As you say they have this view because they wish to guide their offspring in the right way.

I umm and err on these things.

They also have massive issues with mental health problems and inability to form relationships as adults and their children are spending hours and hours at tuition centres after school. I worked with a little boy from Hong Kong a few years ago providing him with last minute 11+ familiarisation. He had no concept of playing because at the age of 10 he was already spending all his spare time studying, and his only hobbies were things which brought prestige or qualifications which he worked just as hard at. They barely have a childhood.

@MrsRobinsonAlphaCentauri I have no interest in doing that, because I understand where you're coming from, even if I disagree.

This might sound insulting, and I don't mean it to be, but I find your view a bit simplistic. I have touched on some of the reasons why I think that, I will add a couple more.

1. Smacking with best intentions with a "good outcome" needs certain things. First, obviously having those good intentions and them being truly good intentions. The second (which seems to be the case with you and your husband) is that it is done on a foundation of love and care and the safety /comfort a child gets from those. That care/love and comfort can and does act sometimes(not often) as protective factors . However, we all know that's not always the case, and in the absence of those protective factors , even "gentle" smacks can and will have negative effects.

1. Smacking isn't actually necessary. I can't think of one situation where nothing else is available as a consequence or nothing else will be effective except for smacking. Even if we're talking about extreme behaviours, if it got to that point then smacking didn't work to begin with, and /or more aggression/violence is needed to stop the behaviour in its tracks.So then we have to wonder, why do it?

And that's fair enough.

I think I feel very protective of my grandfather, I have mentioned him previously in this thread and my husband and his culture. I have a great love for Chinese culture and I can see that may well cloud my judgement and give me a simplistic view.

And your explanations don't insult me, actually I value thinking through other viewpoints and thinking through them for myself. I do umm and err on this topic, I am and have been for sometime a product of two worldviews.

It's the visceral your all awful people that rubs me up the wrong way...

No, a hard smack with an open hand doesn’t leave a bruise. My siblings and I were smacked regularly, and hard, as I said, but there was never a bruise from it as far as I remember. I just went very red and that faded before anyone could notice a mark.

@Jgrtvfsq interestingly enough both my DC shared accommodation at uni with several students from China, and they were the ones who fully went off the rails - drinking, staying out all night partying, vomiting into the kitchen sink - you name it. They couldn't handle freedom at all.

@MrsRobinsonAlphaCentauri I can see that protectiveness and again, I understand it.

It's incredibly hard to see someone who loved you, cared for you, even saved you(by the sounds of it?) being branded as an abuser. It nearly denies your experience/existence and it can be a complete mindfuck.

The thing is, it doesn't have to be a binary thing, and if you're confident and secure in his love and lack of malicious intent, then two things can be true at once. He was a great, loving grandparent/parent while also getting it wrong sometimes. That doesn't deny his greatness, it just makes him human. Accepting smacking is wrong (not actually trying to convince you btw) doesn't take anything away from him. Just like I don't know, smoking with you in the house/car wouldn't if the information about the dangers was lacking at the time.
It is because of that love and care and feeling of safety you've made it in life, the smacking is frankly, irrelevant. You can't say that if he used time out/grounding/taking away privileges instead you wouldn't have ended up where you are now. Hope this makes sense.

This also applies to your PIL btw, if the same situation applies.

Forgot to add a NOW after Accepting smacking is wrong.

@WhenYouSayNothingAtAll

Thank you again for a thoughtful response. I think I'm going to unwatch this thread now. But I will chew over what we have discussed!

It might not have affected you badly, however, you can't honestly believe that smacking a child is correct? So say for instance a family member gets dementia and is acting like a child, being cheeky, doing things they shouldn't etc., do you smack them as well? It is never right to hit another adult never mind a child. Anyone that smacks children just doesn't know how to parent and I say that as someone who has three very respectful, non violent and lovely grown up children. Was that just a fluke?

And in my DC's experience at a university (that is dominated by international students) that the Chinese students were super focused on getting internships to help them secure top jobs after graduation.

People would worry about the "social life" at this university because of this.

Which just goes to show that the Chinese method doesn't always work either.
The bottom line though is that it is perfectly possible to raise good, hard-working young people without hitting them. So why are people so keen to continue doing it? Doesn't bear thinking about, does it?