To ask my friend to please stop trying to have another baby

[Sessili]

A good friend of mine has one child and has been trying to conceive another for the past four years. She has now had 7 miscarriages (all in the first trimester, and most within the first 6 weeks). Obviously it has been devastating for her. She has struggled with her health, lost her job, and been battling depression. She is always either pregnant, trying to conceive with the help of hormones or recovering from another miscarriage.

I've been supportive all these years, but she just had another miscarriage, and I just want to beg her to stop trying and embrace life as it is. The kid she has is wonderful, loving and smart, but all she seems to be able to think about is the second that will likely never happen. At this point I don't think I can be there for her anymore if she keeps going. I want to be endlessly supportive, but I can't. I've hated seeing her waste all these wonderful years in a constant state of misery.

Full disclosure: I'm a mum with an only child myself, and am perfectly happy having just the one. But of course I know not everyone feels the same, and I can really imagine not feeling like your family is complete. I have so wanted it to happen for her. But surely at some point enough is enough and you count your blessings?

This is not your business.

Honestly OP, I still think it would be better for both your sakes, to simply step back a little bit to see if that helps you, without the chat at first.

You are definitely not unreasonable to be feeling dragged down after all these years and to be at the end of your limit now. All the posts telling you that you should remain her good friend and be there for her are unrealistic now that it has reached this point where it is affecting you so badly. You are not obliged to be there for her every single time she needs you. You definitely should look after your own health and well-being first. She isn’t in a state to recognise her own child’s sad predicament so she is hardly going to recognise the way it is affecting her friends. I think she is so ill with the obsession that she has no care for anybody or anything except her goal and it’s even possible her goal won’t make her happy if and when she should ever reach it.

I think that you both might benefit if you could wean her off you, tiny steps at a time and only to the extent that she hardly notices and that you can cope better when you do see her. You don’t have to be in her life, subject to her sad obsession quite so much. It’s perfectly natural to pull away a little bit. Stepping back in very small steps isn’t unkind ghosting as some posters have suggested. If she notices and asks why you aren’t always readily available to support her, then that’s the time you can suggest that you feel she needs more professional help than you can give, you no longer know how to help her, and that her sadness is beginning to affect your own health adversely.

If she has already lost friends over this, I fear a chat to explain how she affects you, before trying to step back a bit, won’t help her at all and may even be more detrimental if she takes offence and suddenly decides you aren’t a friend.
It doesn’t have to be all or nothing but I sincerely hope you can have some peace over worrying about what to do for the best.

Even if she quits now she won't instantly snap back into happiness. She is grieving. It also sounds like time is running out for her so there will be a natural stop at some point. She's gambling basically, but it's a gamble that could pay off and would to an extent make it all worthwhile.

You seem to be mixing up your understandable thoughts and feelings about ‘reaching your limit’ on listening to and trying to support her about fertility issues, and your opinions about the reason(s) for her health / personal situation and choices.

You could address the former by changing your own behaviour / choices, without giving her those opinions, which probably won’t help and based on your posts seem to come from a judgmental viewpoint.

Exactly this.

Definitely not your place to say!

I often think we need to accept that if something is not happening without a moderate degree of effort, then there's a good reason to leave it well alone.

For me, that moment came after 3 rounds of IVF, I suddenly felt that if I persisted and got pregnant, something could go horribly wrong.

Unfortunately there is nothing you can say to your friend to hasten this process, that won't result in her turning against you.

All you can do is encourage her by reassuring her she has an amazing child and if it doesn't happen it doesn't mean that her family is incomplete, it means she has more energy to give the child she has.

Agree when the time is right to say you’re worried and gently suggest therapy.

I think the modern fertility industry has a lot to answer for, is irresponsible and exists to claw money out of often very desperate women. Allowing the industry to run amok has been a complete state failure.

As a pp said, she now feels she needs another baby to get closure - what an awful indictment of what the industry has put her through. Years ago women would be sad, but as you say, would count their blessings or draw a line under it. The endless “but what if next time” means women keep flogging themselves in to the ground.

Often on these threads posters suggest surrogacy or egg donation. Please don’t go along with that. Gestational surrogacy is 3x higher risk for severe pregnancy complications, and babies bond with their mothers in utero. Donor eggs can be taken from women as young as 18 in this country - for a flat payment. A brewing future scandal.

I think there’s a special place in heaven for friends who understand how much pain she is in and desperately want to help - to the extent that the OP has willingly taken all sorts of comments against her a public forum to try to seek ideas for the best way to help her friend.

OP has heard lots of opinions here and hopefully that will help her broach the subject with her friend in a way that helps them both (and the friends family).

Good luck OP

If she’s already in her 40s this will all come to a natural end in the next couple of years. But, as others have said, it doesn’t mean she’ll then be happy. She sounds depressed to be honest. In your shoes I would take a step back - don’t end the friendship, and be there when you can be, but be prepared to say “Sorry Melanie, I’m not in the right headspace for a call this evening, how about Friday? Lots of love”

Absolutely not. Apologies if I’ve missed this in the comments, but have you suffered with infertility? It consumes absolutely everything in your life (not just childless people but those suffering secondary infertility too). One of the hardest parts is working out for yourselves when to draw a line under it all and call it a day. It’s incredibly personal, and you go through a sort of grieving process to come to terms with the cards you’ve been dealt. Knowing she’s in her 40’s adds even more pressure to it all. You have no right whatsoever to tell her to stop. She will stop when she’s ready. Please tread carefully, failed IVF were some of the lowest, most desperate times in my life. If you can’t cope with it, that’s your decision you are perfectly entitled to, but please try not to kick her when she’s down.

This is the kind of thing you cannot tell someone, heart breaking as it is they have to come to that conclusion on their own- unfortunately this often needs a big event like divorce, collapse of this career, or death of a parent.
Should you try to tell her you will lose her as a friend, which may be what you need if you can no longer be supportive.

You may be happy with one but she isn't. If she is wanting a second baby and is willing to go through the pain and misery of trying then that's 100% down to her. It sounds more like as a friend you can no longer be bothered if that's the case then walk away but you can't tell her not to try to conceive. She can try all she wants. If you don't want to support her don't buy it only shows how little your care about a friend or yours want to see her happy.

Why not tell her your own truth. That you are finding it harder and harder to support her as her quest for another child is beginning to look destructive to you and that you are struggling to understand this because you are so happy with one child .

You could share that for you having one child is a joy and it is hard to see you friend treating that situation as unbearable.

Maybe say you care for her and want to be there for her but that friendship is a two way street and you want to be able to share the positives of your life as a parent of one child with her as well as commiserating that she is having so much trouble accepting the same situation

I totally agree with you having been through similar with a friend of mine in the past.
She has spent years, and 10s of £thousands going through cycle after cycle. Her relationship was destroyed and many years of what I feel, being honest within this confidential place, was tantamount to neglect of her existing, beautiful healthy child. I will never understand it. I did not advise her directly to stop but encouraged her to focus on the existing blessings in her life. She is now divorced and her adult DD has very little to do with her.

As someone who has been in your friends position I felt sick reading this. The majority of people do go on to have a successful pregnancy after recurrent miscarriages unless there is a cause found which makes it impossible. If someone had suggested I stop TTC before I was ready to make that decision myself I would have been devastated. Reading this I’m very grateful to have friends and family who stuck by my side through thick and thin.

I think you need to separate what you need from what your friend needs.

Supporting someone through grief means sitting with someone else's pain without trying to take it away or 'fix' the situation and without being overwhelmed with it yourself. If that is getting too hard for you, then that is something for you to address for yourself. You need to ways to support her within boundaries whilst preserving your own mental health. That is what you need.

But you can't tell her 'you' think it's time for her to stop. Your friend is going through absolute hell. She will know this is ruining her life, but she will also think that not having another child will ruin her life. Having had recurrent mcs myself, one of the cruellest aspects is that you know you 'can' get pregnant, so the desire to try just one more time whilst the fertility window is open is overwhelming, and there are always tantalising stories on the forums of people who had 7, 8, 9 mcs and then got their miracle baby. The last thing she needs is judgement or to be made to feel she's upset you with her grief.

What she needs most right now is mental health support. I think the best thing you can do is reflect back to her how devastated you can see that she is and suggest she gets help. You can signpost her to the Miscarriage Association which has a helpline or she can see if she's in a Petals area for counselling. Giving her these numbers will show you are supportive and also take the responsibility off you to feel you need to advise her as she will be getting professional support.

I'd also suggest you call the Miscarriage Association helpline for yourself. I'm sure they will be able to help you find ways to support your friend and will also be able to explain to you what she is going through.

I have just been through years of secondary infertility. It is actually a very sad place to be in . It’s not something you understand unless you have been through it yourself. And it does not mean you are neglecting or “sidelining” your existing child. I really feel for your friend. Agree with poster who said to tell her how worried you are but don’t outright tell her to stop ttc. It’s not your place. I don’t think you sound like a bad friend though, I can understand the concern for your friend.

YANBU she needs to focus her energy on her child.

I agree it would totally be better for her to give the child she has her all as a mum, she's obviously going to be distracted and depressed while trying for a second child. But until she comes to that conclusion herself I don't think she would take any advice.

I think no one can tell anybody what to do. They have to come to their own conclusions, at their own pace and time. You can only advise, or guide and be a supportive friend, whatever she decides to do , but there will become a point where she will have to draw the line and admit defeat. The longer this continues, the older she'll get, the harder it will be to conceive, let alone the possibility of carrying full term, never mind the impact it will have on her mental health. Could you not suggest adoption, or even surrogacy? Is IVF an option? is she in a financial stable situation enough to explore those alternative solutions?

Probably gonna get dragged for this but in my opinion, if it's affecting your existing child, you sort yourself out.

May parents go through appalling things - I myself did a few years ago but your child still needs you, still deserves you - get some help. Even if it feels impossible, there is no excuses, they get one shot at childhood.

To neglect your child based on chasing a dream that is unlikely to happen is selfish as fuck.

I think it’s a shame that her issues with fertility are too much for you but it’s not about you and your friend is having a hard time anyway so will also lose a friend. But we are all allowed to choose who we are friends with and if it’s not for you to be there for your friend through this time, then just pull back.
I wouldn’t presume however to tell her that she’s had enough. That is her business along with her partner.
just bow out.

Help her. Can you research her condition? Is it endometriosis or immune issues? Has she been referred to the recurrent miscarriage clinic? Can she get affordable help at an ivf clinic abroad? Can she use a donor, or a surrogate? Is it an egg issue, a sperm issue, or a womb issue - or even an immune issue. I would scour all sources and help her with research. Go to appts with her, be there for her. She can and will have her baby. She can adopt if nothing else. And if not - just be there when SHE is ready to accept what she has. Not when YOU are. Who made you the master of her body?! Just support her. She can do this. Try Serum IVF clinic in Athens. She will get her baby through them. There are also great clinics in Spain. All a fraction of the price of the UK.

A tricky one. I'm an only child and liked being an only child. Although I have two children, it never seemed necessary to me to provide my child with a sibling. But over the years I've found that many friends (in unhappy marriages, with difficulty conceiving, with financial problems, etc.) have been convinced from the start that they needed to have children. One friend (who also had a lot of miscarriages) told me that she wouldn't have had her first child if she knew she wouldn't be able to provide them with a sibling.

As a happy parent of an only, I suspect that you just don't get this aspect of your friend. I wouldn't say anything. She'll probably get there in the end, painful as it is now.