To be disgusted at the talks between Russia and the US

[SunnyDayInFeb]

So Russia and the US are meeting in Saudia Arabia to carve up Ukraine.

And Ukraine, whose people have been fighting and dying since their country was invaded, haven't even been invited to the table.

It's like we are back in the 19th century with the European colonial powers drawing lines on a map to divide Africa between them.

@Wildflowers99 - if they could build it quick and save us from their conservative views I think it would be a mercy.

Many Americans don’t want to support Ukraine and quite frankly care far more about domestic challenges, of which we sadly have many.

Has the price of eggs come down yet?

I cannot imagine the likes of Putin and Trump being even aware that MN exists, to be honest. Do you think they are devating an strategy to combat posters on this forum? Nope. Imagine the waste of time and money. Plus they would be even more of a laughing stock tbh.

Look I would have agreed if it weren't for the deluge of seriously weird far right posts, child abuse pictures and general nuttiness on here in the last six months. We get all sorts.

I read about the pics.
And we do have far right, some of which have just sprouted on this thread, indeed. But, can I be paid to post? I am starting to like this. I will make a better host than JD Vance.

The child rape photos alone show that more than mums are aware of this site

Maybe. Have you got a decent suit?

And Mumsnet is very clearly among the most popular and well-known UK chat forums. Personally, I'd be shocked if it weren't targeted.

You are probably right that it is a little unfair to Europe, but I’m not sure to what extent you were made to double down on the welfare state, green energy policies (frankly insane) and a skeleton military.

Japan too was forcibly demilitarized after the war but it never weakened itself to this extent, probably because China was next door as a harsh reminder of what could happen to them.

When I first came to Europe, people sort of poked fun at Americans. Most of it is good natured and all in good humor. BUT something that stuck with me was the disdainful way you treat patriotism.

It was abused in the GWB era. Thousands of patriotic Americans were sent to pointlessly die in the Middle East, thousands more maimed and mentally and physically damaged.

It is a bit of a shame such loyalty was used for the wrong reasons. That said, I don’t think European boys (or working class British boys for that matter) will go and die for their respective countries in Ukraine. But maybe I am wrong about this. Hopefully it won’t come to that.

I think you are right. US should really not send their troops all around the world to be killed. Neither should Europe and UK. I think nothing good comes out of it, bar all the opposite.
But Ukraine is a different matter, because it is just here, so we will fight. In size, it is as good as a war on the West coast of US. Will the East coast defend the States in between? Obviously yes.

@MushMonster when you say we will fight, who do you mean and in what way?

It is obvious @EasternStandard .
It was a reply to @RingoJuice saying that our youth does not have a fighting vein in them. Which, in my eyes, is good. Because our society is built for peace, to preserve peace. But if pushed, if left alone, diplomatic paths spent, Russia violating any posdible peace deal, further getting into Europe, then the European armies will fight. There is no doubt. They will fight together and with all the might. Conscription will happen and we will all do our bit. There is plenty of history to prove this.
That we are peace loving people who trust democracy and keep our cool and our views on peace and a diplomatic solution, above all others, does not mean that once pushed close enough to our border, we will all fight, in a war.

CNN suggests 25 so far, Blossomtoes, though I'd be surprised if that's the full extent of it:

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/30/europe/american-fighters-ukraine-bodies-repatriation-intl-cmd/index.html

This was a pretty snappy response and amusing to read. But I don’t really agree with the sentiment that we can or should refuse to listen to anyone based on a set of generalized assumptions, isn’t that what causes most of our problems?

We are a very, very long way from having conscription in the UK. I don't think it will ever happen, partly because I think a lot of people wouldn't comply. The world is very different to 1939.

No, it is the fact that some people are utterly devoid of basic human decency that causes most of our problems. Why would we want to listen to them?

AFP New Agency

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said in remarks aired on Sunday that the United States's dramatic shift in foreign policy largely aligns with its own vision

Ok so you do mean your children in that. That's what I questioned.

But you aren't discussing politics you are discussing culture wars, that's what Trump represents. How many Americans in that camp can articulate a cogent political philosophy- how can they offer a credible condemnation of what they don't agree with when it comes to governance, those days have gone and that's what they need to return to.

I don’t think many British youth would fight if notionally conscripted and their parents would support them.
So many young lives on both sides have been lost. It’s tragic.

Thank you. Precisely the point I was making.

I do not want it to happen.

But if it comes to full on war, we would all have to do what we can.
No a single soul in the previous WW wanted to fight in a war.

I think we need to start getting our heads in the right space, because the long standing peace achieved throughout the years has been seriously jeopardised by Putin, on a single move. He has catapulted us back in time, shaking the ground under our feet.
The strength of the alliances of the past is worn. We need to open our eyes to it. Well, at present is our leaders. But it can come the day when we are all needed to do our bit. We need to face this.

I don't think you have really thought what a war where you need conscription is like, it is not a kind of nice thing where you have options. It changes everything

I'm not so sure.

My ds is 17yo. He and his friends have a far better grip on politics, and opinions on them than I did at that age. I hardly remember politics being discussed in our friendship group; they've been talking/debating politics from when they were primary school age and do it now with more seriousness and knowledge.

I'm not convinced that some of them wouldn't sign up if it comes to it. No, I don't want him to, but he will be 18 soon and then there would be nothing I could do about it.

My girls (older) also had far more political awareness and discussions with friends than we ever did. I think the youth are interested in politics, and aware that it does effect their future and want to be part of it.