DH and DSD(10)'s hygiene

[LemonExpert]

Step daughter is 10, I have known her and her dad since she was a toddler but have only been together for 3 years, he is overwise pretty much a single parent. I understand that not having her mum involved and her age makes things difficult for DSD.

Over the last year or so and I wont go into details but her hygiene is poor which shows in her appearance and smell. This is only getting worse, gentle encouragement, a better routine and nice products etc isn't working, if it is brought up she just gets increasingly upset or annoyed.

DP has pretty much given up saying it's not that big a deal, that him and all his friends used to skip showers and smell at her age and that he doesn't want to be upsetting and embarrassing her. That we should leave her be, be kind to her and the problem will sort on her own.

I think hes letting her down massively and that it is very different for girls than it is boys, when I was her age I remember most girls starting to put extra effort into their appearances and unfortunately the ones being left out or bullied. I want this to be sorted quickly and think its better she be embarrassed and upset at home than teased at school.

Am I being unreasonable? Is this a normal phase that's not a big deal and should I not interfere?

Another thing that helped with the hair washing was one of the turbans that have a button and keep the hair from dripping down the back.

Showering and the sensory issues my daughter was having was the first time I pinged that ND might be involved. The towels were too scratchy, the shower gel was sticky, the water dripped down her back, she got too cold.

It's weird that she will get in the shower but not actually wash herself. I can see her refusing to get in at all but this is definitely weird and something to be concerned about.

Once she starts her periods she will really really have to get on top of this. Hopefully she will have changed her attitude by then.

I used to work with a really smelly co-worker and we could all tell when she had her period as she literally stank like rotting meat.

I managed the roster and worked it so I avoided her in the summer months as we all had to work in close proximity and I used to go home smelling of her BO in the ordinary run of things anyway.

How did the bath routine go tonight?

Less smelly? More ok.. tiny steps can help and you have half term now to build this up a bit for her too

Okay, she definitely stayed in for a while and products were messed about with, her body looked and smelled clean enough.

But we got her to agree to let me help her dry her hair and the soon as I touched it could tell it wasn't washed properly so suggested with give it a quick rinse first and she stormed off, saying shes not a baby, shes already done it, whats the point if what she does is never good enough, im just being mean to her.

Im away tonight so we will see how DH gets on, shes done sports all day so will need to wash properly.

Hrft, but is there any sign of self harming, I've been surprised a few times (in my work) when young people roll up their sleeves and show me awful self harm marks.

Even the self neglect could be considered self harm I guess.

Are her clothes being washed well enough and frequently enough, and dried and aired properly? Clothes that are put away slightly damp soon smell revolting.

I can really identify with DSD. I lived with my dad full time from the age of 11, with DSM on the scene from when I was 13. I really did not take care of myself, and I got badly bullied at school. The thing is, I was getting bullied before the hygiene issues, and because I was depressed and anxious, I didn't care.

My suspicion is that DSD might have some mental health issues that are presenting as poor hygiene. I would try to support her and help her get to the bottom of this, and very gently help her to feel worthy of love.

Good sign that she messed with stuff and smelt better.

The hair does seem to be the sticking point. How does or would she like her hair? Any chance of rather than selling it as a rinse more of a how about me plait it overnight wet so you have nice crinkles/curls. Maybe offer to let her do yours too? “Hey I saw this tiktok about making wet curls want to try it? Ill
do yours mix you do mine?” How long’s dad’s hair any chance we could get in a few tiny loom band type bobbles funny play stuff taking it right back. Everyone’s just playing hair dresser. Or spray in hair colour/glitter since its half term something she will really need help with to get out out.

Small steps.

She really doesn't need to wash her hair every day

She might do. My DD is 12 and her scalp gets really smelly if she doesn’t wash her hair daily.

No she doesn't. But as she never washes it properly , its never clean and always needs washing. She gets it wet and by the time it dries its greasy again.

I only wash my hair once/twice a week. it has been explained to her that if she lets someone help her wash it properly then she can just put her hair in a shower cap for a couple of days and won't need worry about it. She wont let anyone help and isnt doing it herself.

Does she like swimming? Could you go swimming together and then you’d both need to shower so you could chat to her about how you wash your own hair, maybe that it’s important to wash twice after chlorine…?

Keeping a brush in the shower helps too, she can give the hair a brush after conditioning, whilst stood under the water and it'll help get more of the product out.

How was the tantrum dealt with? Because storming off and shouting that sort of nonsense to get out of washing properly isn't on.

Has she tried washing her hair over the side of the bath? That way she doesn't need to get wet. Often people with sensory issues struggle with the feeling of water on their faces.

She won't go swimming. I expect that is because shes feeling insecure so doesn't want to be in a swimming costume or shower/get changed in front of people as she used to like it.
Im aqua-phobic anyway (fine with showers/baths) and wouldnt be able to swim in a public pool/the sea so DH would take her which would mean her going into the girls changing rooms on her own.

I don't think I can add much to the great advice already in this thread but I will share a personal perspective in case it's helpful... When I was a teenager I was a bit like the way you describe your DSD, if not worse; never washed properly; hair was always greasy because I didn't do it thoroughly; had acne but I would even (and I'm so ashamed of this now!) throw cleanser away to pretend I was using it rather than actually use it. As I got older I also wouldn't really address things like staying on top of shaving and grooming. My DM tried to support me with education, advice etc but her gentle supportive approach didn't work. She switched, understandably, to being pretty exasperated with me and insisted I have my hair cut short if I refused to look after it when long. This didn't work either. In fact I ended up going off to uni aged 18 still not maintaining basic hygiene properly. It was only when I started having romantic relationships in my late teens (I was a late bloomer) that I started to make an effort, but I struggled by then because I hadn't mastered some key basics and was too embarrassed to look things up. To be perfectly honest I'm now an adult in my 30s who lacks a lot of so-called grooming skills, albeit that I am pretty clean!

The reason I share this is to say that you can take all reasonable good steps as a parent but I think there's a limit to how much you can force or persuade a child to change. Kids have their own reasons. In my case I think my reluctance was a mixture of sensory stuff and also very low self-esteem - I saw myself as gross, saw my developing body and all male attention as gross, and convinced myself that my body didn't matter and that only my personality and school performance were worth investing in. I still struggle with this way of seeing things now to be honest.

Maybe the only thing my parents could have done that they didn't is open up more open, non-judgemental conversations with me about what I thought about my body and other people's. But these are tough conversations to have!

I hope your DSD finds her way through. It sounds like you care a lot and want the best for her, which is the best possible start.

Honestly it wasn't really dealt with, she was left to storm off. DH did tell her that she was being too sensitive and working herself up about nothing, that we both just wanted to help her. Once she had calmed down she was encouraged to come and watch a film and it wasn't mentioned again.

Shes never really had 'tantrums' and doesn't put up this fuss about other things. It often seems like she is genuinely upset so is normally just given space or comforted. I get this probably is part of the problem. But what do you do? surely getting cross or punishing her while shes crying that we're embarrassing or being mean to her will just make her more upset and less willing to engage with us about the problem

Your DH is being insensitive. It's clearly a big deal to her. Talk to her about it outside shower time. I'd try to get her counselling (urgently, so private) because this is setting her up for a lifetime of issues.

100%

@LemonExpert no I don’t think you should punish her whilst she is crying but once she has calmed down you should take her back to the bathroom and say we will need to wash your hair now as we have said it wasn’t done properly before and repeat the process until her hair is clean. Giving her space to process yes, but then asking her to join you for a movie before she did as you asked teaches her that she will get what she wants if she walks away.

Daily showering is absolutely not necessary for social cleanliness. (Yes some people in some jobs or with some medical conditions may need daily or more frequent showers / baths. For most people it's become a learned thing that feels good - when I was a child in the 80s baths were once or twice a week. People haven't changed so much since then that we need more frequent washing). It's arguably a waste of water. Too much washing can make smells worse because too much oil is removed from the skin so out bodies make more of it.

So for the ten year old: is she changing her underwear, including her socks / tights every day? Is she growing in the sense of her pants getting too tight and she needs some more. Is she wearing different shoes at the weekend to school? Are her school shoes able to dry properly between wears? Damp shoes can become very smelly.

Does she know how to identify dirty clothes? Does she have enough school uniform? Does she have at least some vests / t shirts in natural fibres?

Deodorant is worth recommending - see if you can find some unscented ones in case nobody else is known to be using it at school and she doesn't want to smell of strongly scented deodorant. Try different formats - I hate roll ones but like sprays, YMMV. Make sure she knows not to put deodorant on shaved skin in case she's trying to shave her armpits.

May be worth checking for tonsil stones if the smell might be coming from her mouth. Also worth making sure she sees a dentist as usual - to get advice on brushing / mouthwash / floss / bad breath.

If she's ok with seeing hairdressers they may be able to advise on washing frequency and how to do it - she may be more likely to take on board their advice than yours.

I would try very hard to make this a team effort: all of you against her silly body being smelly rather than adults against a child behaving badly. She's not being naughty, her body is changing in ways she isn't controlling.

If you're talking about washing try to depersonalise it - talk about how you'd wash babies or a dog etc because nobody over the age of about five wants to talk about how they wash themselves in a bath / shower. She won't want to hear the specifics of how you wash either. About the only specific I'd think of as important to convey is to not put soap on your vulva - just use water or an emollient (E45, Double base etc) as adolescent/adult vulval skin is much thinner and more sensitive than prepubescent children's.

Are there mirrors in the bathroom? Can she cover them? She might not like how her body looks at the minute. And the opposite - are there mirrors she could use to look at her changing body if she wants? Does she want to try wearing a crop top or bra rather than/ in addition to a vest? Does she know how to clean the bath / shower afterwards? (ie. Is she worried about being in trouble for not tidying up after herself when she doesn't know how to). Can she lock the door? Anybody have a habit of walking in on her?

Could you figure out how long it takes for her to rinse her hair properly and send her into the bathroom with a playlist of songs of the same length to listen to?

It is a great pity but kids are not allowed anytime as 'kids' these days before they have to follow the peer-group and get ears pierced, buy lippy and perfumes, and all that goes with it. When I was 10 you could go a week without a bath and no one would even notice - because, give it an hour and a kid was dirty all over again. Times have changed so if you want to avoid the teasing you will have to get the daily showers going - but showers are fun, and can be made part of the process of growing up for 'big school' I am sure.

OP I was horribly embarrassed at age 12 when the nasty pupils at my all girls grammar school were whispering behind my back that I smelled. My mother hadn’t told me anything about cleanliness, deodorant, periods.. or anything else really. It’s a long time ago now, but I have never forgotten. So IMHO a little uncomfortableness at home is far better than public embarrassment.