DH and DSD(10)'s hygiene

[LemonExpert]

Step daughter is 10, I have known her and her dad since she was a toddler but have only been together for 3 years, he is overwise pretty much a single parent. I understand that not having her mum involved and her age makes things difficult for DSD.

Over the last year or so and I wont go into details but her hygiene is poor which shows in her appearance and smell. This is only getting worse, gentle encouragement, a better routine and nice products etc isn't working, if it is brought up she just gets increasingly upset or annoyed.

DP has pretty much given up saying it's not that big a deal, that him and all his friends used to skip showers and smell at her age and that he doesn't want to be upsetting and embarrassing her. That we should leave her be, be kind to her and the problem will sort on her own.

I think hes letting her down massively and that it is very different for girls than it is boys, when I was her age I remember most girls starting to put extra effort into their appearances and unfortunately the ones being left out or bullied. I want this to be sorted quickly and think its better she be embarrassed and upset at home than teased at school.

Am I being unreasonable? Is this a normal phase that's not a big deal and should I not interfere?

I agree, everyone should be clean, female or male.

I wouldn't discount ND. I was similar as a child (and adult). It's not just a sensory thing. It's also about all the steps involved and the perceived effort all that takes. I also would have just gotten myself wet too because 1. it would mean I'd done something, and 2. my mum wouldn't nag me if she thought I'd showered. (See also: getting dressed. It's much easier to wear the same clothes, inc underwear, than having to spend mental and physical energy changing.)

I don't know what the solution is sadly. I did get bullied and I did feel ashamed, which really only made things worse because being unable to make myself stop avoiding it just enforced what a failure I was and made the anxiety worse.

Removing hair is too intimate and a step too far at 10. I did eventually have to raise that with my DD, but not until she was about 15, and it was only ever armpits, never anywhere else.

You need the soap talk, and that's it. Hair removal is personal choice, soap is not. This early stage of puberty is difficult for a lot of children and what you're experiencing isn't that unusual.

She needs non-negotiable rules for the things that matter - soap for armpits, help to wash her hair for now, deodorant applied at bedtime after she's washed.

FWIW I have done this with a ND child. That's why I kept the rules simple and only around what matters.

Could there be sensory or executive functioning issues involved?

There may be neurodivergence and even if not, the kind of approaches that work for ND kids could be helpful.

Some things we use for our ND kids absolutely can be used for any kid who is having difficulty.

For example, could she have a bath instead of a shower? Could she use wipes or a damp cloth\ towel on the most important bits of she can't face a shower? Could she had \ shower twice a week and use some hacks in between?

Can she use dry shampoo \ a cleaning cap ? Will flavourless tooth paste help? Chewable tooth brush? Would roll on deodorant feel better than a spray? Would scent free be better?

Is there an issue with the bathroom e.g. too hot , too cold, noisy pipes, harsh lighting?

Is the transition daunting? Are The towels \ wash clothes scratchy? What Would feel better?

I might have missed a post or two that already makes this point: I know someone had queried neuro diversity and you say she hasn't displayed any indicators before but girls often don't until they get older.

10-12 is a key age at which neurodiversity in girls starts to become noticeable so don't dismiss it out of hand. Children of this age as well may not be able to articulate that it's a sensory problem they have, so I'd recommend taking an approach that is sensitive to neurodiversity (nothing to lose) and keeping an eye out for indications emerging in the next few years.

Of course she wants privacy, but at that age I think children are still very much children when it comes to self care and don't enjoy it/ are not interested. I'd suggest setting out a regular routine & clear steps that she needs to follow as a minimum each time.

Perhaps also normalise talking about certain (appropriate) aspects of your own hygiene & your partners. E.g. I wonder if my deodrant is still doing the job properly? I think I might need to try a new one in spring when the weather warms up

One thing to consider - is he washing her clothes well, eg they are not smelly.
My teens sports clothes can still smell of BO after washing them if I don’t use biooogical washing powder and have started adding Dettol antibacterial liquid too if v smelly. Synthetic clothes can retain smells more I find.
Make sure bedding etc is washed regularly and her room is clean. I’m sure he’s on it, just worth a polite check.

At ten, a girl really needs a female rôle model; probably more now than at any other time in her life. She obviously trusts you and, as her birth mother is not really in the picture, she is looking to you. I think it would be a good idea to have a a general chat with her about growing up and the extra responsibilities that entails. You can make it very clear to her that her hormones will make her sweatier and the hair that is starting to grow in new areas will add to this, which is why good hygiene is more important now than ever before. She needs a daily bath or shower and deodorant is non-negotiable. It may well be that she might still need help with hair washing, though. Tooth brushing twice a day is another non-negotiable. Again, you can spell out why this is so. I would also be open about periods and the fact that she will need to be even more vigilant about hygiene at those times. Even if she has not started her periods yet, it will probably happen in the next year or so and I would have some pads ready for her. In the same way, she will need advice when it comes to buying her first bra. The fact that her body is starting to give out strong odours is a sign that puberty has has started. I think she will find it easier to talk to you as a woman about these topics rather than her father.

How about suggesting baths and getting her some special bubble bath,bath bombs etc …make it a treat .

Does she smell because she has undiagnosed thrush? Is she embarrassed to tell someone that she's itchy/sore. Often a child with sore labia might avoid washing as it stings.

If not thrush, I would consider getting her a bath puff to make it easier to clean her external genitals and maybe a exfoliating glove for the rest of her body. This might help her feel more grown up. She needs a detailed conversation about how women/girls need to clean the inner as well as outer genitals to avoid thrush/getting smelly.

I agree that it's imperative to say that being clean is a key part of being an adult, especially as growing up means more sweat and greater chances of smelling.

When I.hit puberty, I had the misfortune of being the one who had horrendous stinky BO. I literally can't go a day without a proper scrub of my armpits with an actual bar of soap, and a clean flannel and of course effective antiperspirant.

After a lot of trial and error, the only effective one for me is Mitchum roll-on. Nothing else is any good. I've thought about that one people recommend which is a natural one, used by the West End stage show dancers etc but it's bloody expensive (£27 a bottle!) which i can't justify not knowing if it will be any good.

Unfortunately for some of us poor smelly ones, even our flannels stink literally after using them, so it really is a case of getting rid of all the bacteria every day religiously. I remember to my horror one day in sixth form when I stunk in art lessons after wearing a very tight fitting top under my armpits, and a girl on my table kept saying in a passive aggressive way that the smell made her feel sick. 😳😬 Every since then, I've been diligently making sure I wear looser tops and wash my pits daily. Teenagers can be very unkind at times.

This doesn't surprise me. I started aged 10 and that was years ago. Lots of my friends did too.

I'd remove dirty undies & replace with clean ones.

I do remember in the 1970's my mother standing at the twin-tub washing machine shouting that she only had 4 school blouses from me & where was the 5th? I'd remember that I had PE last session in Friday &, in my rush to get the school bus home, went home in my PE kit & left my school blouse hanging on the peg in PE changing rooms. I would then dig out an old one just to placate my mother. She would 'call me out' & accuse me of placating the 'Goddess of Dirty Washing' 😂

PS I used to avoid showering after PE by saying that I was on my period because I didn't want to get naked in front of other pubescent children. Trouble is my mother was a teacher & had taught my PE teacher in Reception Infant School so I was found out eventually. 😕😂

Thrush doesn't smell

Would dh take her swimming on a Sunday? Then they can shower at pool and wash hair?

OP, this would be flagged up in school as a possible sign of sexual abuse. Have you checked in with her? Has she been hurt or frightened in some way? It can be a reaction to unwanted sexual attention: basically trying to ward off people. Can you pinpoint when it started?

Can for some women. Characteristic yeasty /slightly musty smell. I've had it described as a bit metallic by some women. It smells less than BV/some other vaginal infections though.

We've agreed to try and make her bath / shower before dinner rather than after that way we have more time to send her back in if she doesn't do it properly and she has more time to relax in the evening once she does.
Bath was ran for her, products lined up and a checklist of what she needs to do left in there, she didn't put up too much of a fuss.

I have mentioned the idea of ND and we will keep on eye but suspect its more of a self esteem issue, that she feeling uncomfortable and embarrassed about growing up, perhaps theres been some mean comments made to her and is dealing with that by refusing to discuss or deal with the problem and just blocking it out.

I don’t think she needs to remove hair at 10.
It’s important she washes, that’s all.

Can you literally show her/remind her how to wash in the shower? Stand there and mime it and she copies before she undresses so she doesn’t have the embarrassment factor. Don’t be too serious about it!

My dc prefers to bath and use a flannel so she doesn’t have to actually touch anything. She struggled and resisted washing for a long time but she is in better habits now.

I so agree with not removing hair at her age. Wouldn't want her to get a 'thing' about body hair as it's perfectly natural and her choice to remove it if she wants to.

I used to be very much into gymnastics at her age & remember under-arm hair being a big thing. Looking back, we wore leotards with long sleeves so what was the issue? But this was 1970's & people had a different perspective. I also remember certain coaches were rather 'handy' touching our bums, commenting on whether we should be wearing bras, shaving under our arms &, looking back, rather pervy.

I also remember being spanked on the bottom by a coach every time I did a vault to encourage me to jump higher to avoid his hand. F**KING PERV 😡

I went to a pretty nice primary school where the kids were pretty accepting and kind. We had a few kids who were probably autistic and literally growled and barked, they didn’t get bullied, I didn’t get bullied for being specky, the only person who did get bullied was the stinky girl. And it was brutal. So you’re doing the right thing.

First things first, make sure she knows how to wash herself. I distinctly remember basically getting taught how to properly wash, shower and dry by my mum. Step by step, as if she was explaining it to an alien. You’re not her mum so this maybe a little trickier, but it’s important she knows how.

Secondly, I think you maybe need a bit of tough love. You’ve tried being nice and it’s better coming from you than her peers, who will most likely be brutal.

I agree with you, I think it is slightly different for girls. Boys and girls will both smell of BO once they hit puberty, but after puberty girls tend to develop a fishy/unpleasant smell if they don't wash down below and change their underwear daily. She might just need showing how to wash, perhaps she thinks that as long as she gets wet its fine. There also needs to be some tough love, washing all over properly shouldn't be negotiable. You don't want to wait until other children start to be unkind before you address the issue, especially once she starts secondary school. Names and labels tend to stick, even she later cleans up her act.

You use words like confronted, told she smalls, there is being honest and being too honest. Sometimes these things need to be subtle especially if she’s getting upset.

What are her interests? I ask because I know a lot of 10yo girls rightly or wrongly are obsessed with skincare, make up products. I have 10 & 12 yo DDs who fit this category and they lecture me on cleanliness, hygiene and know the science behind a lot of this because they follow so much of it. If we go shopping they want to go to Boots & Superdrug, at Christmas we took them to a shopping centre with a Sephora & SpaceNK where they spent their own money on perfumes, shower gels, toiletries and makeup. It was all stuff I think is overpriced but it’s what they wanted to spend their money on.

i have 3 girls, one with greasy hair, it wasn’t until she started high school it bothered her. Finding the right shampoo is key to tackling the grease and you could add to tackling the smell with a nice dry shampoo. I found just talking about this regularly helped. Also maybe a leave in conditioner spray might help.

A random thing that might help that my dd must have listed to me even if she acted if I was utterly ridiculous for suggesting it, is baby powder. I told her I sometimes use it if I don’t have dry shampoo, it helps with the grease. You could also get her to apply it to her body. My DF never ever wore deodorant, he was very physically active and never smelt, he only ever used talc in his youth and baby powder when talc was banned in products.

All my DDs have gone through non knicker changing phases, yes I’ve been brutally honest about the smell at times but then also used the medical side, they will get infections if they keep wearing dirty knickers, think about your wee drips and poo splashbacks… thinks like that have been said.

I have a massive range of products in my bathroom, far more than needed, each dd has her own shampoo to suit her hair type, they have had input when choosing shampoos. I have various shower gels they can help themselves to, shower body buffers, a collection of bath bombs, only 1 dd uses these as the other 2 can’t, this is my 10yo who will randomly just run herself a bath.

I regularly tell my DDs that cutting the split ends will help their hair grow, it tends to fall on deaf ears but I’ve gone and now made them an appointment they have no choice but to attend as it’s the first in a year.

Other people, especially people they respect, I regularly incorporate the help of others, especially if my DDs like them, they will drop hints and suggest things to my DDs who will listen, but won’t listen to me.

Maybe a few subtle shopping trips, no intention of going to boots or anything like that but you pop in and randomly pick stuff up and say o I saw a video the other day that (insert name of celeb DSD likes) loves this stuff, I might try it what do you think. O ( insert school friends name) mum was saying she’s been begging for this stuff, here what do you think? It’s a lot of money… see if she wants it because she thinks it’s out of bounds. Pretend you’re getting things for you but leave them the bathroom for dd to use.

Just because dd was shown how to wash hair when she was younger dosnt mean she’s doing it right, I’ve had to go over it with mine a few times especially with long hair. Make an odd suggestion, o DSD I heard if you wash condition then just re wash your roots that helps your hair nit get too greasy, I’ve bought you a new mask, it’s to help your hair feel soft and grow batter but it has to be applied before you shower and washed out probably, it’s recommended an adult help, why don’t you chuck a costume on and I can help with it.

Gosh I literally tell mine they smell and will be greasy and spotty so go get sorted. I always tell them it’s better for me to tell them than someone at school. A few years of this and they shower more than me now! 😂

@LemonExpert Can you assign weekly shampoo-days? Days when she needs to properly shampoo her hair and come out hair smelling nice and clean? You could give her a reward afterwards, so she associates shampooing with something nice? Like more screen time after bath or a nice dessert?
I do this with my ds. Its usually saturdays and Wednesdays. He showers every day, but shampoo-days are twice a week.