to be a bit nervous about Dh coming home..

[EruvandeAini]

... because he's always disappointed in what I've got done? I'm always mentally rehearsing how I can 'play up' what I've done.

He'll nod, and then a few minutes later he'll ask what else I've done. And he'll just make me feel that he's so disappointed. He's at work all day, I'm at home with the kids, blah de blah.

And to his credit, he does do stuff in the house, when he's got exasperated with the fact that I haven't done it.

Today, I've done a couple of washing and managed to get them on the line to dry. I've washed up, cleaned surfaces and cleaned the kitchen floor, and tidied the front room ready for him to vacuum (I can't push the vacuum round myself) Plus looked after four children under 7.

But I just know it's not going to be good enough, and I'm feeling really crappy about that today.

"This is what happens when women don't work of course and all the power and money is with men"

while I do agree that in many cases the power (and money) does seem to be with men, surely it's only because either a proper full discussion has not been had about what things could be like when you make the decision to rely on one wage, or because once that discussion has been had one or both of the parents has diverted from what was discussed?

It is possible to have a partnership where both people feel valued and happy, but it doesn't just 'happen'.

Xenia - it would be lovely if no-one was in a position where they felt a public forum was the only way to get support in a situation they found intolerable. However, some people find themselves isolated and marginalised, and even made to doubt the reality of their situation. If the only people around you behaved in a way which "normalised" your situation, and made you believe your unhappiness was caused only by your own faulty reactions, then you might well turn to a "neutral" public forum to find out how other people reacted to your situation.

I don't mean you as inyou personally, as you do not come across as someone who would be pushed into that jind of situation, but many people, women in particular, are.

I think it's the view that if a woman doesn't earn money (even though she is working damn hard at home bringing up children), she can't expect to have any autonomy and in fact can expect a lack of respect that is offensive. Offensive to both men and women.

Actually I feel a bit iffy about DHs (in the main) reading their spouses posts on MN. It is a bit like listening to someone's phone calls, or following them to the coffee shop. Very controlling. And creepy.

My DH knows I come on to MN, and knows my talk name, but he also knows I would flip my lid if he started looking up my posts.

Sue my dear, if you're reading this, hang on in there.

I know that batty would want to communicate her affection and respect as well.

"This is what happens when women don't work of course and all the power and money is with men" - so women who don't work DESERVE to be treated like the OP? Xenia I am all for womens lib and the right to vote etc etc, but honestly your views that ALL women should work is EXACTLY the same as saying all women SHOULDN'T work, it's the same kind of dictatorship.

Sue - I know you are probably not reading this now, but i couldn't post a reply to Xenia and then not acknowledge the absolute hell you must be going through.

PLease don't feel so absolutely in this mans control that you don't have any ways of expressing your pain or desperation....please name change or find ways of staying in touch.....a bully's best tactic is to distance you from everyone and everything you trust so that the only contact you have is him - and thus you feel his way of thinking is the only way of thinking.

Take care chick and PLEASE PLEASE don't leave.

Xenia, would it have made a difference if she wrked full time and found herself ina similar situation, we all know that many women take on more domesticity even if they work. I find your incapacity to resist your usual theme pretty pathetic and whilst I accept your point of view is often valid, even if you represent a position neither afforded or admired by many, it has no place in every bloody thread you post on.
Control is unaccpetable on any level and to infer that a woman should expect it becaue she doesn't work is fucking insulting, perhaps you think women in provocative clothing get what's coming to them too.

because I am SO ANGRY with Mr SB.

and DH has now vamoosed to pub, 1hr late, because of row, to meet dear mutual friends.

But d'you know what, tho I am, joking apart, genuinely cross with DH about a crap thing he did with the kids tonight - I am definitely with bluesky on the reading posts thing.

'My DH knows I come on to MN, and knows my talk name, but he also knows I would flip my lid if he started looking up my posts.'

Absolutely.

Mr SB, how about trying out trust, and respect.

And if that's not enough, how about 1 John 4:18, 'There is no fear in love: but perfect love casteth out fear.'

Hang in there, Sue, if you read this.

I was just putting the other point of view - the disloyalty point.

In general educating women and ensuring they work is one of the best things all cultures and societies can do. It's why the FT supports Camfed for example. It's when women are at home and obeying their husbands and their entire economic future is bound up with keeping and pleasing the man that they often have more problems than if they work. But I agree you can both work and have a partner who is too controlling (and that's women as much as men - all that hen pecking stuff some women do) where the other partner doesn't like it or you can have a husband or wife at home but a good relationship. The two aren't necessarily linked but being entirely economically dependent on the man often does lead to more problems than not which is why most mothers of under 5s in the UK work.

sue my dearest I am off board at the mo
Please email me kate at minimum dot co dot uk if you would like to.

Xenia - because you have a single solution to all the problems faced by mothers, you are trying to fit even this thread into your straitjacketed view of life. Suebaroo's husband is domineering and critical. He would be the same whether she worked or not.
My father was domineering and critical, despite the fact that my mother worked full-time and did everything in the household.

Hey - just had an email.

Is there any chance we can all stop slagging off Mr Baroo?

Thanks

Sue, hope you manage to ignore the Xenia sideshow.

Lots of us - many of whom struggle with imperfect partnerships but are nevertheless feminists - are thinking of you as YOU, and acknowledging the fact that your circumstances are pretty specific.

I know it's been said, but:

teachers don't do housework

That must be your first point, I think.

Then:
So, we don't want our kids educated in the mainstream.

So, educating them privately, all four of them, will cost £25K.

So, while that figure is alarmingly high, it's pretty unlikely to include laundry/cleaning the loo/mopping floors/hoovering/ putting clothes away/making beds/shopping/ shopping again/ cooking/all the shitework like wiping accidental shit off the sofa.

So, I'm saving us.. why, it must be nigh on £45K!

AND I'M YOUR PARTNER
AND YOU PROMISED TO CHERISH ME
SO PLEASE, PLEASE, REGARDLESS OF WHAT I WOULD COST TO REPLACE, AND FOR ALL OUR SAKES, SHOW ME SOME LOVE. AND WHEN YOU'VE FINISHED SHOWING ME THAT, SHOW ME SOME RESPECT.

Sorry, got slightly carried away there. If you email me I will be MUCH calmer, promise.

Sue, just wanted to add my support. I really hope you and Mr B can work this out together, preferably without giving up mumsnet. I love your posts - they are always wise, intelligent and original and mumsnet would be a much worse place without you.

OK urban, will do

[tries hard to emulate onebatmother and switches off RANTLOCK ie capslock]

do like the word cherish...

SuBaroo, I have just read this horrifying thread. I understand from it that you are a Christian? Presumably your husband is too? Did you promise to obey him? If the answer to those questions is yes, then I am going to deviate a bit here, but I hope it helps you a little.

We were educated by Jesuit priests and they often came round for dinner; many lively and funny discussions took place round The Parents' kitchen table, throughout my life. When my brother got married he wanted a catholic ceremony, officiated at by one of our family friend's, a wonderful, funny, very human, and very wise Jesuit. I was immensely surprised to hear bro's wife include 'obey' in the vows. My brother is a truly nice, generous bloke but no one says 'obey' now, do they? I asked her afterwards why on earth she had included it. SIL explained that while she (as the non-catholic) was going to 'instruction' prior to the marriage, it was explained to her that the burden of the obedience thing was actually on the husband. That the wife promised to obey 'reasonable' decisions made by the husband, and that the spirit of the vow was that any decision (ultimately made by the husband as someone has to take responsibility should it be the wrong decision) should be made only after full discussion of all aspects in a truly loving, caring, open minded and respectful way, taking all circumstances into account, and weighing wife's needs as greater than his own because he is responsible to her for the consequences of the decisions, and particularly as he is promising to love and cherish her, and to be responsible for her happiness.

In the light of this, your husband could try to convince you (properly convince using loving kindness, reason and sympathetic, respectful, openminded discussion) that the right thing to do would be to opt out of your support group: Mumsnet. However, if he cannot muster reasonable argument to persuade you kindly and lovingly that this is the right step, then you are not obliged to pander to him and you are not breaking your vows by not doing as he asks. In truth, he is breaking his promises to you by making unreasonable demands on you, without proper discussion. A marriage, in the view of the church, is a bond between two equal people, freely embraced. In no sense is any marriage, christian or civil, meant to confer power to one partner at the expense of the other. If that happens, then the marriage itself is being abused and denigrated, and the sacrament itself is brought into disrepute. In other words, it is a corruption of the state of marriage.

I would add that the above interpretation of a christian marriage, given to my SIL during her instruction, was by another friend of our family who was (died recently) quite a senior Jesuit at Farm Street Church (a significant catholic church in London), and believe me, you can't do much better on theological matters than the Jesuits.

Oh, and not to forget, that your husband's expectations of you should be discussed and agreed (freely) between you, and reflect reality.

And on a purely personal note, with my ex-catholic hat off - you've got 4 kids under 7 and YOU'VE BEEN ILL ffs! No one could manage under those circumstances. You need a cleaner at the very least.

Apologies if this is completely off the wall and has no relevance. I sincerely hope that you are all right and that you get back to us soon.

In a lot of religious doctrine the mnle is automatically superior to the female.

In spite of Xenia's tedious and relentless 'spin' on things, I hope you find a way to be happier, SB.

Oh goodness this thread has shocked me to the core

I am very sorry for the OP

Very sorry indeed

It doesn't have to be like this. Your DH's behaviour is not normal, this is very controlling

Please come back when you can, or more importantly when you need to

I've always valued your posts

All best

Qx

Suebaroo - I had no idea until now that you were the OP.

I am so sad that you aren't being treated with kindness and respect in your own home.

Please come back to MN when you can.

And CAT me if I can help in ANY way - including if you and the DC need a place to stay for a few days.

Oh Sue. Am sad you've gone, and sad about this.

Perhaps this needs to be part of the bigger think about moving the goalposts - because everyone is moving them aren't they?

Sue - praying for strength and resolution for you. Take care.

Sue - I will be thinking of you.