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Original poster

A man undressing in front of a woman without her consent is an act of intimidation and control. Men do not acquire consent by identifying as women

748 replies

SernieBanders · 04/02/2025 17:56

How and why has it become anything but voyeurism and control?

What on earth can be done to reverse the madness?

Trans staff should always be given dignified, adequate, separate changing spaces. Females should never feel cowed, silenced, intimidated into putting up with a man looking at them half naked.

Background.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/why-scots-nurse-sandie-peggie-has-taken-nhs-fife-to-tribunal-over-dr-beth-upton-transgender-dispute-4974664

(Phrase inspired by a tweet from x.com/SonyaDouglas )

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 19:37

Good grief. He didn't make an ounce of effort.

Oh come on. Scroll down the page, it clearly says the photos are prior to transition. 🤦🏻‍♀️

delvan · 04/02/2025 19:38

AnSolas · 04/02/2025 19:34

The papers had to get a court order to publish so it depends on what the court allowed
they are unlikely to attach any image which would get their reporting restricted.

And is a picture needed to reach a conclusion on the substance of the issue?

Show quote history

His picture is linked on the thread thanks to poster @ItsAToughie

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 19:38

Exactly. He persistently used the female changing room despite being a man.

They persistently used the changing room their employer allowed them to use, given their recognition as a trans gender woman.

JazzyJelly · 04/02/2025 19:40

Ooh we're getting them all tonight! So far on the bingo we've got:

'men will perv on women anyway so don't bother having single sex spaces'

'men (same ones that will perv anyway) wouldn't transition just to perv on women'

'comparing muslim women to men' (prayer Vs perving, what's the difference?)

Have I missed any?

AnSolas · 04/02/2025 19:40

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 19:16

I dont like having to switch between pages to check match blocks of text ..... 10 seconds time to paste a source link

Actually, takes a bit more than that, but I'm happy to help.

It wasn't exactly war and peace to remember and not sure why you want to QA my work, but you do you. Did I pass the audit?

You have a visable agenda with your quotes so I like to read the source material to independently check the reporters bias

Have not checked your source yet but A+ for effort👌

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 19:40

At what point did this male person become female in anyway?

Why is that relevant?

delvan · 04/02/2025 19:40

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 19:37

Good grief. He didn't make an ounce of effort.

Oh come on. Scroll down the page, it clearly says the photos are prior to transition. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Transition to what? He is a man. I'd love to see the transitioned pics also.

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 19:41

If I, a woman, was in a changing room and a female colleague came in and explained that she was very embarrassed because her period had started unexpectedly and she had bled all over her scrubs so would I mind giving her some privacy to sort herself out, I would leave the room if I didn't need to be there .Why couldn't dr Upton do the same?

Did this happen?

spannasaurus · 04/02/2025 19:41

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 19:38

Exactly. He persistently used the female changing room despite being a man.

They persistently used the changing room their employer allowed them to use, given their recognition as a trans gender woman.

He has no grc so legally a man in addition to actually being a man. The PC of gender reassignment doesn't mean that a legal man is considered female for the purpose of single sex exemptions

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 04/02/2025 19:42

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 19:38

Exactly. He persistently used the female changing room despite being a man.

They persistently used the changing room their employer allowed them to use, given their recognition as a trans gender woman.

He is biologically and legally a man. On what planet should he be in a space where females are undressing?

Employers legally have to provide single sex spaces.

spannasaurus · 04/02/2025 19:42

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 19:41

If I, a woman, was in a changing room and a female colleague came in and explained that she was very embarrassed because her period had started unexpectedly and she had bled all over her scrubs so would I mind giving her some privacy to sort herself out, I would leave the room if I didn't need to be there .Why couldn't dr Upton do the same?

Did this happen?

Yes. That is what happened in this case

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 19:43

Have I missed any?

You've missed the entire point, but you knew that.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 04/02/2025 19:44

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 19:34

What's a 'gender change'?

Whatever you want it to be, or not. Whatever it is that men are supposedly doing just to get in to changing rooms (because they don't have ample opportunity to harass women in other ways if they want to)

I don't want it to be anything. I have no idea what a gender change is. Define gender and how does one change it. You stated it so you should be able to define what it is, no?

LittleBigHead · 04/02/2025 19:44

And any woman would immediately understand. Dr Upton demonstrated suspiciously masculine behaviour. Funny, that.

CranfordScones · 04/02/2025 19:44

Yup. It's about power, not gender.

commonsense61 · 04/02/2025 19:45

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Original poster
SernieBanders · 04/02/2025 19:45

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 18:53

"The nurse also confirmed that she had "strong opinions" and an admiration for US President Donald Trump."

"One text from the nurse said she was "shaking like a leaf" after encountering Dr Upton in the changing room, adding: "Everyone sticks up for the minority."

"Dr Upton's complaint alleged that Ms Peggie left a patient, who was in a serious condition, when the doctor appeared in the cubicle. It was alleged that Ms Peggie asked Dr Upton to complete observations for her - a task which would normally be completed by a nurse."

All from the BBC report.

I would put money on the fact that someone with strong opinions hasn't been quietly getting along with Dr Upton. She actually put a motion forward in court to be allowed to misgender Dr Upton and was keen that the case was heard in public. This is not someone who just has an issue with changing rooms.

Either way, she's got the attention she wanted, and if she loses it will just be more grist for the mill, I guess. It would be great if these issues could be addressed in a better way, instead of this kind of noise whipping up a storm.

Calling a man a man is not missgendering anyone.

and the BBC are as bias as they come. Did they ask a drag queens opinion on the case?

OP posts:
JazzyJelly · 04/02/2025 19:46

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 19:43

Have I missed any?

You've missed the entire point, but you knew that.

Enlighten me then! Why should this man (or penis person, if you want a nice, gender-neutral term) be in the female changing room?

LittleBigHead · 04/02/2025 19:46

LittleBigHead · 04/02/2025 19:44

And any woman would immediately understand. Dr Upton demonstrated suspiciously masculine behaviour. Funny, that.

My post was adding to @spannasaurus comment.

lifeturnsonadime · 04/02/2025 19:46

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 19:32

She did several times.

Indeed she said she had, but if it were such a problem, the next step is to escalate it with upper management. Or are we happy that someone can choose to go against workplace policy, as long as we agree with their stance.

If she had decided she didn't like the policy that said she wasn't allowed to harass a muslim employee for having regular prayer breaks, would we be ok with that?

Everyone has a right to feel comfortable in their workplace. NHS Fife should be providing a mix of changing spaces so that everyone has a place they feel safe. This case isn't going to change that policy. NHS Fife made that clear when they said her bringing the case was vexatious. All this serves to do is whip up more froth. If there is widespread support for her among her colleagues, it should have been pretty easy to have NHS Fife be forced to provide better accommodations. Other organisations have done so.

Clap and cheer this woman all you want, unfortunately she has not helped the cause in any way.

She was required to change with a male.

If her employer didn't immediately resolve that then that's on them.

You are victim blaming.

And as for 'she has not helped the cause' , I'd suggest that everyone looks at the male in question, his picture is posted.

He is the person in the wrong. Him alone.

LifeIsAMeatball · 04/02/2025 19:46

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 18:53

"The nurse also confirmed that she had "strong opinions" and an admiration for US President Donald Trump."

"One text from the nurse said she was "shaking like a leaf" after encountering Dr Upton in the changing room, adding: "Everyone sticks up for the minority."

"Dr Upton's complaint alleged that Ms Peggie left a patient, who was in a serious condition, when the doctor appeared in the cubicle. It was alleged that Ms Peggie asked Dr Upton to complete observations for her - a task which would normally be completed by a nurse."

All from the BBC report.

I would put money on the fact that someone with strong opinions hasn't been quietly getting along with Dr Upton. She actually put a motion forward in court to be allowed to misgender Dr Upton and was keen that the case was heard in public. This is not someone who just has an issue with changing rooms.

Either way, she's got the attention she wanted, and if she loses it will just be more grist for the mill, I guess. It would be great if these issues could be addressed in a better way, instead of this kind of noise whipping up a storm.

But this is just the witness cross examination - so in itself is very biased with the aim of casting her in a poor light. The Dr’s cross examination will no doubt do the same. The Trump comments were certainly designed to make her appear “lesser”.

I agree though that they probably didn’t like each other. Regardless, and taking personalities away and getting to the crux of the matter, I feel she shouldn't have had to share a female space to change in.

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 04/02/2025 19:48

BoredZelda · 04/02/2025 18:59

I would think that perhaps this thread might give a clue to one of the reasons surely?

Nope. Unless you are suggesting people go through a gender change just to go into female changing rooms? Which seems very unlikely.

They don't have to do anything to "change gender". Just say the magic words "I'm a woman". No surgery or drugs necessary.

We know predators will spend years grooming people, will spend years training as priests, teachers, coaches just to get access to victims.

Why's it so hard to believe a predatorial man would just put on a dress to get access?

DuesToTheDirt · 04/02/2025 19:48

Clarabell77 · 04/02/2025 18:15

It doesn’t say anything in the article about the Dr undressing in front of anyone, or the nurse being undressed and the doctor looking? We have unisex changing rooms (separate cubicles) in sports centres all over our local authority.

As other posters have said, this was a communal changing room.

But additionally, separate unisex cubicles are not great either - much higher incidence of sexual assault, cameras under the partitions, etc.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

Clarabell77 · 04/02/2025 19:49

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

I didn’t say they should…

TheKeatingFive · 04/02/2025 19:50

Quite why anyone is defending this bullshit is beyond me.

No to predatory men in women's spaces. That's a complete no brainer as far as I'm concerned