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A man undressing in front of a woman without her consent is an act of intimidation and control. Men do not acquire consent by identifying as women

748 replies

SernieBanders · 04/02/2025 17:56

How and why has it become anything but voyeurism and control?

What on earth can be done to reverse the madness?

Trans staff should always be given dignified, adequate, separate changing spaces. Females should never feel cowed, silenced, intimidated into putting up with a man looking at them half naked.

Background.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/why-scots-nurse-sandie-peggie-has-taken-nhs-fife-to-tribunal-over-dr-beth-upton-transgender-dispute-4974664

(Phrase inspired by a tweet from x.com/SonyaDouglas )

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
BoeotianNightmare · 12/02/2025 15:08

Does anyone have a link to the employment tribunal transcript?

Nameychangington · 12/02/2025 15:36

BoeotianNightmare · 12/02/2025 15:08

Does anyone have a link to the employment tribunal transcript?

https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

x.com

https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

Helleofabore · 12/02/2025 15:54

If you are on Twitter, Boswelltoday has been also doing some summaries that might prove useful. I don't know who they are and if their summary brings up relevant legal points, but it is an interesting summary.

https://x.com/boswelltoday/with_replies

For instance, this one is from this morning:

Day 8 Peggie v NHS Fife - Morning Session

Dr Upton’s Cross-Examination Collapses Under Scrutiny, Exposing Contradictions and Obfuscation

Dr Upton’s cross-examination continued its downward spiral as Naomi Cunningham systematically dismantled his testimony, exposing contradictions, evasions, and what appeared to be deliberate obfuscation of key details. Throughout the session, Upton struggled to maintain credibility under sustained pressure, particularly when faced with his inconsistent recollections and apparent attempts to manipulate the investigatory process.

A key focus was the so-called “Snickers patient” incident, where Upton was questioned on whether he had worked alongside Sandy Peggie in that case. Initially, he denied recalling her presence, but when presented with Peggie’s own clear recollection of the event, he wavered, unable to provide a confident response. Cunningham pressed him on whether he was deliberately obscuring the details, pointing out that if he had given a precise date for the incident, it would allow for corroboration—something she suggested he wanted to avoid. Upton, predictably, denied this, claiming he simply couldn’t be sure, though the pattern of vagueness whenever a corroborating witness might be found did not help his case.

The timeline of Upton’s escalating complaints was another point of contention. Cunningham laid out the sequence of events, highlighting that while Upton pursued his Christmas Eve grievance with immediate urgency—going as far as emailing colleagues at 3 AM on Christmas morning—his allegations regarding Peggie’s supposed professional misconduct, including the "resus incident," were not raised with the same urgency. Instead, Upton appeared to have spent weeks consulting with the BMA, repeatedly requesting clarification on the process before submitting his concerns. Cunningham suggested that rather than responding to a genuine professional crisis, Upton had been stalling while he sought legal and regulatory advice on how best to frame his accusations. His insistence that he had merely been waiting for BMA input was undermined by the fact that he had already received their advice, yet continued delaying, supposedly unable to recall whether there had been further communication.

The “resus incident” itself was another major sticking point. Upton had accused Peggie of refusing to work with him during an emergency situation, implying that her “bigotry” had interfered with patient care. Yet, as Cunningham pointed out, if this had truly happened as described, it would have amounted to gross misconduct, warranting immediate suspension. Instead, Upton had waited weeks before raising it as an issue, and when questioned on why he had not escalated it earlier, he downplayed it as a mere “communications issue.” His assertion that he had simply been “naïve” in not realising its significance did not hold up under scrutiny—especially given how aggressively he pursued the Christmas Eve confrontation, which was ultimately a matter of personal grievance rather than patient safety.

Cunningham then turned to Upton’s handling of investigatory transcripts, an area where his actions raised further doubts about his credibility. Initially, he had approved the notes taken by the investigator, AG, but later insisted they were inaccurate, requesting changes. The crucial recordings had been deleted before Upton had approved the final version, meaning there was no way to verify his claims that key elements had been misrepresented or omitted. When challenged on why he had not disclosed this rewriting process earlier, Upton feigned ignorance, claiming it was not relevant. Cunningham suggested this was a clear attempt to conceal the fact that he had been unhappy with how his original statements were recorded, leading to the reasonable conclusion that he had actively participated in sanitising or altering the official record.

A particularly revealing moment came when Cunningham exposed the contradiction at the heart of Upton’s approach to workplace relationships. He repeatedly claimed that his complaints against Peggie were purely professional and not personal, yet his obsessive focus on being "validated" in his gender identity overshadowed all other considerations. When Cunningham pointed out that his actions had the effect of forcing female colleagues to comply with his self-perception regardless of their own discomfort or rights, Upton dismissed this as a mere matter of "respect." The issue, however, was not one of simple politeness but of a fundamental clash between self-identification policies and the objective reality of sex-based spaces and safeguarding concerns. His refusal to acknowledge the legitimacy of female colleagues’ objections spoke volumes.

Cunningham then put to him that his demand for validation effectively "flattened everything in its path"—overriding the rights of others, disregarding workplace harmony, and even taking precedence over patient safety. She highlighted that under his logic, a female colleague expressing discomfort about sharing intimate spaces with a male-bodied individual was an issue of “prejudice” rather than a reasonable expectation of female-only boundaries. Meanwhile, the principle of maintaining trust in professional relationships—something Upton had earlier agreed was critical in a clinical setting—was suddenly less important when it came to ensuring that female colleagues could trust their working environment to be free from unnecessary conflict.

The session ended with a broader question about priorities: was it more important to ensure patient safety, or to compel colleagues to affirm Upton’s gender identity against their will? While he attempted to present both as equally significant, his actions suggested otherwise. The rapid pursuit of his grievance about being "disrespected" contrasted sharply with his slow-walked reporting of a supposed life-threatening professional failure by a colleague. If he had truly believed Peggie’s conduct in resus posed a patient safety risk, all professional standards dictated that he should have reported it immediately. The fact that he did not—and instead treated it as a lower-level issue until much later—further suggested that his primary concern was not safeguarding but securing institutional recognition of his self-perception.

By the close of questioning, Upton’s credibility lay in ruins. His attempts to avoid precise dates, his selective amnesia when it came to crucial details, his rewriting of investigatory transcripts, and his failure to escalate a supposedly urgent safety issue all painted a picture of someone whose priorities were not patient welfare, but personal validation. His own evasions made it abundantly clear that this case was not about professional concerns, but about control—specifically, the control over whether others were permitted to recognise and assert biological reality, or whether they would be compelled to submit to his ideological demands. The tribunal is now left with an unavoidable question: why is NHS Fife still defending him?

x.com

https://x.com/boswelltoday/with_replies

Nameychangington · 12/02/2025 16:12

I like those summaries very much, but I think they are hugely GC biased. We can see all the bullshit, but we've no idea whether the panel are seeing it that way.

Helleofabore · 12/02/2025 16:15

Agreed namey.

I haven't found a similar summary that is reliable enough supporting the opposing side though. I'd like to see both.

Nameychangington · 12/02/2025 20:48

I mean there's this, which is apparently a Dr forum. https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorsUK/comments/1inpif2/patient_consent_question_is_dr_upton_correct_in/

If these are actual doctors then we have a very serious problem in our healthcare system, as many of them seem to have no idea that patients are actual people with rights, and must be extremely either credulous or illinformed to believe all the most marginalised and vulnerable™ pish against all available evidence.

I thought that this was my favourite amazing quote:

Basically if no one was a weird/bigot/religious we wouldn't need this debate but many patients are so here we are.

But on balance I think it's this one :

What Dr Upton is going to have is oodles of compassion and empathy from being treated like shit by society for most of her life! Likely more than most cis-females!

How did would anyone who had read or seen any of Upton's evidence reached that conclusion?!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/02/2025 22:28

What Dr Upton is going to have is oodles of compassion and empathy from being treated like shit by society for most of her life! Likely more than most cis-females!

How did would anyone who had read or seen any of Upton's evidence reached that conclusion?!

The answer is that they haven't, they're just jumping on a bandwagon with the approved narrative.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/02/2025 22:29

I haven't found a similar summary that is reliable enough supporting the opposing side though. I'd like to see both.

Are there any summaries from TRAs, reliable or otherwise? Have only seen individual posts.

85PercentFaithful · 12/02/2025 22:58

Nameychangington · 11/02/2025 16:06

The NHS absolutely 100% does expect female staff to change in front of male staff if the male staff want that because of the male staffs 'gender'.

The policy in my workplace specifically says that the transitioning person gets to choose what changing rooms, toilets etc they use and to deny them that is breaking the law. Which is a lie, but is written in the policy.

The case at Fife isn't an outlier, this is standard in every NHS Trust policy I've seen. There are some on What Do They Know. Female NHS staff are not allowed to refuse to change in front of (some) male staff and are told it's illegal to not validate those males.

I just don’t know how to respond to this.

It’s so shocking on so many levels I don’t know where you’d start.

Nameychangington · 12/02/2025 23:17

85PercentFaithful · 12/02/2025 22:58

I just don’t know how to respond to this.

It’s so shocking on so many levels I don’t know where you’d start.

Edited

I can tell you what happened when I started. Except I started not with raising concerns about the staff changing rooms, but about the single sex ward policy which allows anyone to self ID into which ever sex bay they choose, and states that staff aren't allowed to discuss it with the rightful occupants of the bay unless they want to be put on a disciplinary and reported to the police for a hate crime. Which in my specialty led to a teenage girl who identified as a boy being put in a male bay with adult men.

When I officially raised it as a concern the hospital consulted with the staff LGBTQIA+ group, who (unsurprisingly , since they wrote it)backed the policy. More depressingly, the head of safeguarding was also consulted about my concern and also approved the policy and said it was up to the teenager if 'he' chose to be in a bay which aligned with 'his' gender.

The recommendations made from this incident? That I needed to attend a LGBTQAI+ training, so I would be better educated about caring for trans people. This was pre Forstater, but the policy is still live today.True story.

I have no trouble at all believing that there are women like Sandie Peggie working in NHS hospitals up and down this country being made to change in front of men and being threatened with disciplinary if they object.

Helleofabore · 13/02/2025 07:29

I think Pete is going to be very useful for us in the future. This is well worth the read. And Naomi, thanks for Pete!

forwomen.scot/12/02/2025/the-problem-with-pete/

SernieBanders · 13/02/2025 08:22

Nameychangington · 12/02/2025 20:48

I mean there's this, which is apparently a Dr forum. https://www.reddit.com/r/doctorsUK/comments/1inpif2/patient_consent_question_is_dr_upton_correct_in/

If these are actual doctors then we have a very serious problem in our healthcare system, as many of them seem to have no idea that patients are actual people with rights, and must be extremely either credulous or illinformed to believe all the most marginalised and vulnerable™ pish against all available evidence.

I thought that this was my favourite amazing quote:

Basically if no one was a weird/bigot/religious we wouldn't need this debate but many patients are so here we are.

But on balance I think it's this one :

What Dr Upton is going to have is oodles of compassion and empathy from being treated like shit by society for most of her life! Likely more than most cis-females!

How did would anyone who had read or seen any of Upton's evidence reached that conclusion?!

To be fair the highest rated comments all seem very reasonable to me?

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/02/2025 08:46

To be fair the highest rated comments all seem very reasonable to me?

If you read the whole thread there are some extremely concerning people on there who are apparently doctors.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/02/2025 08:52

This one, for instance. Women's needs and feelings simply don't come into it for him.

www.reddit.com/r/doctorsUK/s/xUgvlLBdDK

AnSolas · 13/02/2025 09:07

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/02/2025 08:52

This one, for instance. Women's needs and feelings simply don't come into it for him.

www.reddit.com/r/doctorsUK/s/xUgvlLBdDK

Bingo

" I am such a tired professional explainig my duty of care to anybody except the woman (who would not ever ask for professional me to provide any service if she knew I was a bit rapie) ....."

I was worried for a while that the homophobia box would be empty by lucky enough.✅️

MeTooOverHere · 13/02/2025 09:39

Helleofabore · 09/02/2025 22:53

By allowing female people to react the way we used to react whenever any male person entered the space that they should not be entering. As I said.

There are plenty of ways that we used to do it. The thing about all safety issues is that we are never perfectly safe despite taking even the best available steps to prevent harm from happening. That is unrealistic. Burglars will still get into your house despite the locks that we put on doors and windows.

Making the statements you did is like saying to someone, well, you may as well not even bother closing your front door because you will never be 100% safe. We can only make spaces as safe as possible within reason.

Having law changes and policy changes and making sure that these are very well publicised for an extended period, having signs up stating that a space is single sex etc is a start. We have to undo all the expectation that some male people have that they should be in those spaces.

I mean, another great start would be to have the very opposite of the signs that have popped up in some areas in the UK where they say that women and girls should not question people who look like they should not be in those spaces, and to re-educate girls and women that they should indeed leave if they feel unsafe, that leaving is not a offensive act but it is a valid reaction if we feel concerned and uncomfortable.

I don't know if you ever saw the ad from the Victorian government in Australia, but the opening scene of the ad was designed to educate through shame any woman or girl who was in a lift alone with a male person and felt concerned and distressed and that they should not leave that space in case it hurt that male person's feelings. A fucking shocking ad when you consider it. But the reality is, this new 'education' that has happened over the past years needs to be reversed. Female people should most definitely feel confident to leave a single sex space (or any) when a male comes into it.

But there really is quite a few things that can be done. However, nowhere will be 100% safe. That should not stop us from having those single sex spaces though.

By allowing female people to react the way we used to react whenever any male person entered the space that they should not be entering. As I said.
I agree with you. I too am not at all happy that men who are allowed in women's rooms.

MeTooOverHere · 13/02/2025 09:54

Helleofabore · 09/02/2025 23:31

And as I said up thread, using the word 'cis' to mean people assigned female at birth who are not trans, it is inaccurate. As we have discovered in the many discussions over the past decade's Olympics where we end up discussing male athletes who have differences of sex development who are entered into female sports events.

Caster Semenya is often described as a 'cis woman'. Semenya is male with a difference of sex development - 5ARD that only is found in male people. Semenya is not a female person and this has been medically verified. Still described as a 'cis woman' though. Thereby rendering that term meaningless in any discussion concerning female single sex provisions.

I too am opposed to the use of cis. It means nothing.

How are you defining sex?

I have asked this question before and no-one has answered me.

Are you just going to go with 'XX'? What about XXY? What about XXXY?

Or are you going to go with 'no Y'? What about a person with XO chromosomes?

Let's think of it another way. You want safe spaces that are women-only, right? You don't care about 'everyone else'. Ok, so you need to be able to define what a woman is. Is she XX? If so how will we prove we are women? We will all need to have chromosome testing, we will all need to be able to prove we are XX at any time when we are challenged. Usually this would be drivers license, as per most other IDs, yes? So potentially every woman would need to subject herself to a chromosomal test plus agree to such ID on her DL.

And someone would have to police this, at least at the doors to women-only spaces, because otherwise it would be meaningless.
Can you think of any way this might backfire on us? In the USA people are being stopped and asked for papers to prove they are citizens.

Now 'everyone else' doesn't matter to you so they won't need to have chromosome testing and an entry on drivers license. This at least will weed out the MTF trans folks (who to be honest, I'm a good deal more concerned about, because adding regular testosterone shots doesn't make them nicer people).

It's complicated. It's not simple. I agree women's spaces should be for women only but again I ask - how are you defining women?

Helleofabore · 13/02/2025 09:55

And from watching the statements from Beth Upton this past week, I think we now have clear proof that girls and women are expected to never react when a male person enters the single sex space and that only complete acceptance is allowed. There has been this growing message in ads, media, policy and listening to these male people speak that if women and girls act in anyway like they are uncomfortable, that is them being hateful and bigoted.

That messaging has to be reversed. Particularly since it directly contrasts the messaging we are getting that once we, as women and girls, feel
something is not right we should calmly leave or ask for help.

So we have this complete contradiction- if we feel uncomfortable in the presence of male people we should remove ourselves from that situation. But wait… not ‘those’ male people. If you see ‘those’ male people you must ignore any discomfort because otherwise you are a bigot and should be punished for your bigotry.

MeTooOverHere · 13/02/2025 09:58

Helleofabore · 12/02/2025 15:54

If you are on Twitter, Boswelltoday has been also doing some summaries that might prove useful. I don't know who they are and if their summary brings up relevant legal points, but it is an interesting summary.

https://x.com/boswelltoday/with_replies

For instance, this one is from this morning:

Day 8 Peggie v NHS Fife - Morning Session

Dr Upton’s Cross-Examination Collapses Under Scrutiny, Exposing Contradictions and Obfuscation

Dr Upton’s cross-examination continued its downward spiral as Naomi Cunningham systematically dismantled his testimony, exposing contradictions, evasions, and what appeared to be deliberate obfuscation of key details. Throughout the session, Upton struggled to maintain credibility under sustained pressure, particularly when faced with his inconsistent recollections and apparent attempts to manipulate the investigatory process.

A key focus was the so-called “Snickers patient” incident, where Upton was questioned on whether he had worked alongside Sandy Peggie in that case. Initially, he denied recalling her presence, but when presented with Peggie’s own clear recollection of the event, he wavered, unable to provide a confident response. Cunningham pressed him on whether he was deliberately obscuring the details, pointing out that if he had given a precise date for the incident, it would allow for corroboration—something she suggested he wanted to avoid. Upton, predictably, denied this, claiming he simply couldn’t be sure, though the pattern of vagueness whenever a corroborating witness might be found did not help his case.

The timeline of Upton’s escalating complaints was another point of contention. Cunningham laid out the sequence of events, highlighting that while Upton pursued his Christmas Eve grievance with immediate urgency—going as far as emailing colleagues at 3 AM on Christmas morning—his allegations regarding Peggie’s supposed professional misconduct, including the "resus incident," were not raised with the same urgency. Instead, Upton appeared to have spent weeks consulting with the BMA, repeatedly requesting clarification on the process before submitting his concerns. Cunningham suggested that rather than responding to a genuine professional crisis, Upton had been stalling while he sought legal and regulatory advice on how best to frame his accusations. His insistence that he had merely been waiting for BMA input was undermined by the fact that he had already received their advice, yet continued delaying, supposedly unable to recall whether there had been further communication.

The “resus incident” itself was another major sticking point. Upton had accused Peggie of refusing to work with him during an emergency situation, implying that her “bigotry” had interfered with patient care. Yet, as Cunningham pointed out, if this had truly happened as described, it would have amounted to gross misconduct, warranting immediate suspension. Instead, Upton had waited weeks before raising it as an issue, and when questioned on why he had not escalated it earlier, he downplayed it as a mere “communications issue.” His assertion that he had simply been “naïve” in not realising its significance did not hold up under scrutiny—especially given how aggressively he pursued the Christmas Eve confrontation, which was ultimately a matter of personal grievance rather than patient safety.

Cunningham then turned to Upton’s handling of investigatory transcripts, an area where his actions raised further doubts about his credibility. Initially, he had approved the notes taken by the investigator, AG, but later insisted they were inaccurate, requesting changes. The crucial recordings had been deleted before Upton had approved the final version, meaning there was no way to verify his claims that key elements had been misrepresented or omitted. When challenged on why he had not disclosed this rewriting process earlier, Upton feigned ignorance, claiming it was not relevant. Cunningham suggested this was a clear attempt to conceal the fact that he had been unhappy with how his original statements were recorded, leading to the reasonable conclusion that he had actively participated in sanitising or altering the official record.

A particularly revealing moment came when Cunningham exposed the contradiction at the heart of Upton’s approach to workplace relationships. He repeatedly claimed that his complaints against Peggie were purely professional and not personal, yet his obsessive focus on being "validated" in his gender identity overshadowed all other considerations. When Cunningham pointed out that his actions had the effect of forcing female colleagues to comply with his self-perception regardless of their own discomfort or rights, Upton dismissed this as a mere matter of "respect." The issue, however, was not one of simple politeness but of a fundamental clash between self-identification policies and the objective reality of sex-based spaces and safeguarding concerns. His refusal to acknowledge the legitimacy of female colleagues’ objections spoke volumes.

Cunningham then put to him that his demand for validation effectively "flattened everything in its path"—overriding the rights of others, disregarding workplace harmony, and even taking precedence over patient safety. She highlighted that under his logic, a female colleague expressing discomfort about sharing intimate spaces with a male-bodied individual was an issue of “prejudice” rather than a reasonable expectation of female-only boundaries. Meanwhile, the principle of maintaining trust in professional relationships—something Upton had earlier agreed was critical in a clinical setting—was suddenly less important when it came to ensuring that female colleagues could trust their working environment to be free from unnecessary conflict.

The session ended with a broader question about priorities: was it more important to ensure patient safety, or to compel colleagues to affirm Upton’s gender identity against their will? While he attempted to present both as equally significant, his actions suggested otherwise. The rapid pursuit of his grievance about being "disrespected" contrasted sharply with his slow-walked reporting of a supposed life-threatening professional failure by a colleague. If he had truly believed Peggie’s conduct in resus posed a patient safety risk, all professional standards dictated that he should have reported it immediately. The fact that he did not—and instead treated it as a lower-level issue until much later—further suggested that his primary concern was not safeguarding but securing institutional recognition of his self-perception.

By the close of questioning, Upton’s credibility lay in ruins. His attempts to avoid precise dates, his selective amnesia when it came to crucial details, his rewriting of investigatory transcripts, and his failure to escalate a supposedly urgent safety issue all painted a picture of someone whose priorities were not patient welfare, but personal validation. His own evasions made it abundantly clear that this case was not about professional concerns, but about control—specifically, the control over whether others were permitted to recognise and assert biological reality, or whether they would be compelled to submit to his ideological demands. The tribunal is now left with an unavoidable question: why is NHS Fife still defending him?

I don't trust the MSM to get anything right. Who is Boswelltoday ? and where can I find it since I'm not on X.

Helleofabore · 13/02/2025 09:59

Helleofabore · 09/02/2025 22:15

ummm.... you obviously didn't really read and consider my post.

Just because a group took some words and retrofitted them to suit their purpose doesn't mean that they are words that fit accurately in the use of human sex categories.

And I think you will find that sex most definitely is based on categorisation being done after testing, to determine what gametes that human body has been formed around producing. It is includes a number of indicators such as chromosomes, but chromosomes are just one of those indicators. And categorisation is also not dependant on whether that body has or will produce that gamete.

Maybe, instead of just plopping down two lines and an irrelevant wikipedia entry, you could actually engage with the post.

I thought I had answered how sex is categorised.

MeTooOverHere · 13/02/2025 09:59

Helleofabore · 13/02/2025 09:55

And from watching the statements from Beth Upton this past week, I think we now have clear proof that girls and women are expected to never react when a male person enters the single sex space and that only complete acceptance is allowed. There has been this growing message in ads, media, policy and listening to these male people speak that if women and girls act in anyway like they are uncomfortable, that is them being hateful and bigoted.

That messaging has to be reversed. Particularly since it directly contrasts the messaging we are getting that once we, as women and girls, feel
something is not right we should calmly leave or ask for help.

So we have this complete contradiction- if we feel uncomfortable in the presence of male people we should remove ourselves from that situation. But wait… not ‘those’ male people. If you see ‘those’ male people you must ignore any discomfort because otherwise you are a bigot and should be punished for your bigotry.

Yes. That messaging has to be reversed. Particularly since it directly contrasts the messaging we are getting that once we, as women and girls, feel
something is not right we should calmly leave or ask for help.

MeTooOverHere · 13/02/2025 10:02

Helleofabore · 13/02/2025 09:59

I thought I had answered how sex is categorised.

If you're talking about gamete size, no that is not how sex is determined. Gamete size is a result of chromosomes, endocrinology and development. eg some intersex people never produce gametes. And if you want to use gamete size, you'll have to include some XY folks who produce large gametes.

Yes it's complicated.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/02/2025 10:04

There's no such thing as "intersex" it's an activist term. You are referring to medical disorders of sex development.

SernieBanders · 13/02/2025 10:04

Helleofabore · 13/02/2025 09:55

And from watching the statements from Beth Upton this past week, I think we now have clear proof that girls and women are expected to never react when a male person enters the single sex space and that only complete acceptance is allowed. There has been this growing message in ads, media, policy and listening to these male people speak that if women and girls act in anyway like they are uncomfortable, that is them being hateful and bigoted.

That messaging has to be reversed. Particularly since it directly contrasts the messaging we are getting that once we, as women and girls, feel
something is not right we should calmly leave or ask for help.

So we have this complete contradiction- if we feel uncomfortable in the presence of male people we should remove ourselves from that situation. But wait… not ‘those’ male people. If you see ‘those’ male people you must ignore any discomfort because otherwise you are a bigot and should be punished for your bigotry.

I absolutely agree.

My teenage daughter genuinely does not seem to care if a male comes into her changing room, she says time and again it does not bother her and I struggle to get it across to her, without saying all men are rapists, how it's an important right that has been taught out of her by well meaning fuck wits in education and pressure groups like "All Sorts" - https://www.allsortsyouth.org.uk

This needs to be actively taught out, the rot is there, in women and girls below, say 22/23 it has been given to them since Reception year

Allsorts Youth Project

Allsorts Youth Project provides youth, family and LGBT+ training services across Sussex. Our youth support and groups are for children & young people under 26 who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans or exploring their sexual orientation and/or gender ide...

https://www.allsortsyouth.org.uk

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/02/2025 10:05

Why can't it simply be respected that female toilets and changing facilities are for women, not men who identify as women?

Swipe left for the next trending thread