A man undressing in front of a woman without her consent is an act of intimidation and control. Men do not acquire consent by identifying as women

[SernieBanders]

How and why has it become anything but voyeurism and control?

What on earth can be done to reverse the madness?

Trans staff should always be given dignified, adequate, separate changing spaces. Females should never feel cowed, silenced, intimidated into putting up with a man looking at them half naked.

Background.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/why-scots-nurse-sandie-peggie-has-taken-nhs-fife-to-tribunal-over-dr-beth-upton-transgender-dispute-4974664

(Phrase inspired by a tweet from x.com/SonyaDouglas )

More likely people who object to the nasty language being used. It's just so reminiscent of the homophobia of the 40's.

"They can do what they like as long as I don't have to see it" is a phase I remember hearing a lot growing up about gay people.

Please tell me what is nasty or untrue in this?

"A man undressing in front of a woman without her consent is an act of intimidation and control. Men do not acquire consent by identifying as women"

And the not have to see it, is not having to see a man's penis, without wanting to.

FFS.

What nasty language is being used?

Clutching at straws here pet.

She is a writer, lecturer and activist. I came across her on FB.

@BoeotianNightmare

More likely people who object to the nasty language being used. It's just so reminiscent of the homophobia of the 40's.

"They can do what they like as long as I don't have to see it" is a phase I remember hearing a lot growing up about gay people.

Where is the nasty language?

I’ve heard this said before about the language used being similar to the homophobia of the past and it does worry me slightly on behalf of what I believe is a minority of people with a genuine issue but not for the majority who seem to use choosing a different gender for a multitude of reasons that I personally don’t agree with.

"The nurse also confirmed that she had "strong opinions" and an admiration for US President Donald Trump."

"One text from the nurse said she was "shaking like a leaf" after encountering Dr Upton in the changing room, adding: "Everyone sticks up for the minority."

"Dr Upton's complaint alleged that Ms Peggie left a patient, who was in a serious condition, when the doctor appeared in the cubicle. It was alleged that Ms Peggie asked Dr Upton to complete observations for her - a task which would normally be completed by a nurse."

All from the BBC report.

I would put money on the fact that someone with strong opinions hasn't been quietly getting along with Dr Upton. She actually put a motion forward in court to be allowed to misgender Dr Upton and was keen that the case was heard in public. This is not someone who just has an issue with changing rooms.

Either way, she's got the attention she wanted, and if she loses it will just be more grist for the mill, I guess. It would be great if these issues could be addressed in a better way, instead of this kind of noise whipping up a storm.

I don’t feel comfortable changing in front of anyone full stop

Could you quote the nasty language?

choosing a different gender for a multitude of reasons that I personally don’t agree with.

What reasons could a person have for choosing a different gender, that make any difference to you?

I would think that perhaps this thread might give a clue to one of the reasons surely?

Sure. Let's just give females back their single sex facilities and men pretending to be women separate facilities and we can move on. Sorted.

So being forced to change in front of the opposite sex would be even worse.

Could you quote the nasty language?

"Who the fuck are the 11% who think YU? Probably pervs themselves."

Well, this wasn't very nice.

Do you have a link to where ever you sourced the quotes from?

The fact that Dr Upton is a man is central to her case. Not being able to state this in the tribunal would be a complete injustice.

I would think that perhaps this thread might give a clue to one of the reasons surely?

Nope. Unless you are suggesting people go through a gender change just to go into female changing rooms? Which seems very unlikely.

Are you okay? 🤣🤣

@AnSolas

I mean, I did say it was from the BBC report, which is right there on the front page of the BBC website if you take 10 seconds to open a web browser, but here you go..... www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2q8zzx0d7o

Some men will do all sorts of things to intimidate women, he knows women are uncomfortable with this and is doing it anyway.
It's not decent men who ignore women's boundaries...

The fact that Dr Upton is a man is central to her case. Not being able to state this in the tribunal would be a complete injustice.

If her defence of bullying is that men shouldn't be allowed in changing rooms, she isn't going to get on very well. Especially if the allegation of bullying is centred around her bullying a transgender woman.

But, if she wants to go that route, I think most lawyers would be able to make that distinction without misgendering.

So being forced to change in front of the opposite sex would be even worse.

I would find them equally uncomfortable, TBH. I don't even like undressing in front of my dog.

Sure. Let's just give females back their single sex facilities and men pretending to be women separate facilities and we can move on. Sorted.

Which, in the vast majority of situations is what is happening.

What frustrates me is that when you Google the case, there are countless photos of the nurse but it's very hard to find a picture of the doctor.

He's a tall, bearded bloke. If his photo was displayed every time that a photo of the nurse was shown, readers and viewers would take one look and say, "It's a man."

It would be another peaking case like Isla Bryson.

Instead, reporting seems to be very coy about showing him. Most reporting refers to him as "a trans woman" or a "trans colleague". They won't even say "a male who identifies as a TW" let alone just bloody calling him a man.