Kemi B just suggested about Southport....

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

...murders.... that the reason these things happen is because people / immigrants are not being helped to integrate in our society and feel alienated. On Laura K show. Dear lord I'm sorry but that's ludicrous ... if I've misunderstood please help me out. Its really angered me !

Now where did Kemi Badenoch spend most of her childhood?

How about looking at the catastrophic failings of the system and starting there - regardless of immigration status ? For one .... argh its really made my blood boil

It doesn’t matter how much you try and deflect by using individual examples as being unreasonable, the fact is that immigration is out of control. It’s too high and it’s bad for this country.

Trying to piss about around the edges with ‘yeah but, no but’ isn’t going to change the fact that it’s a huge problem.

He'd been through the UK education system and even appeared on Dr Who.

The reality is the system of checks failed at level, repeatedly. People need to be fired over this.

Yes, agreed, but the failings of the system in this case are not necessarily the root. I think it’s fine to talk about what root possibilities there are.

Unless you believe in being born evil AND that nothing can turn you back from that, then at some developmental point in life there is one or multiple malfunctions.

The system is a huge factor in not stopping it.

Multiple interactions with the school and police with no further action. Three referals to Prevent.

Failure after failure and now a focus on anything but those failures.

Whatever the failings were, the most striking thing is that they almost all will have happened over the previous years of Tory government. Most likely as a result of spending cuts and austerity. I almost feel sorry for the current opposition as that must be the case for everything they talk about.

Why don't politicians get proper briefing on this stuff.
The mn threads on this have been incredibly informative.
It was nothing to do with integration and everything to do with his autism and a lack of service that could tackle his issues.
The services where there but each one proved totally ineffective.

I only agree with her immigration point in so far as we have proved that inspite of cahns, ehcp, police, specialist units and 3 prevent referrals we were unable to reach and stop this boy /man.

So how on earth can we as a society have any hope to track trace help any of the young men coming in on boats by their 1000s from difficult backgrounds?

Ok, let’s blame integration for Southport, even though he was born here and there is nothing to suggest he hated white people, etc.

What’s Kyle Clifford’s excuse?

What about Jon Venebles and Robert Thompson’s reason?

The Southport Killer was clearly extremely mentally disturbed. People like him have existed all throughout time, and on this occasion, immigration and race has nothing to do with it.

I was born here, but I'm not integrated at all because I'm autistic. I live my life on the margins and have absolutely nothing in common with about 95% of the population, plus I can't even communicate effectively with them. I follow all laws though and don't go around murdering people. My children have similar challenges, but they just have to get on with it too.

People who were born here can't access help for themselves or their children. Why do migrants deserve it more than we do? They get enough as far as I can tell. The country now has to cope with thousands of unknowns entering our communities. Who are these people and what are their backgrounds?

He hated women and girls apparently.

If a child doesn't feel the embrace of their village, they will burn it down to feel its warmth.

I do believe that it has far more to do with the failings of multiculturalism than anything else. We expect the state to perform the functions a cohesive and fully integrated society would. It can't.

The reality is the system of checks failed at level, repeatedly. People need to be fired over this.

The reality is that the vile party which Badenoch is so proud to lead have underfunded services to the point that they will fail and people will die. Usually by suicide, but sometimes other people, and in this case, the almost unimaginable tragedy of it being small children.

When services are under pressure they retrench and make referral criteria more rigid - its the only way to make sure your service does not collapse. Its a lot easier then to look for scapegoats when the inevitable happens, rather than to look at the systemic failings which go all the way up to the government.

I am totally with Kemi for once. It's about time we taught the Welsh better values. It's been a disaster ever since Offas Dyke fell into disrepair.

The killer was obsessed with ethnic cleansing and has spoken about wanting white genocide.

I think Badenoch is right to a point. There's little or no integration - that's really the responsibility of the immigrant person however and not a UK societal failing as such.

I think she actually said that if the Government can't get a handle on this with so many agencies involved then other strategies need to be looked at. She didn't apologise/make excuses. She said that if a family of asylum seekers were not seeing the UK and it's people as a positive thing then immigration should be tackled.

She also said that more studies should be looked at second generation immigrants and that if several institutions couldn't get a handle on the situation other measures should be considered. She said she would not back away from difficult conversations.

She also said that people hold onto their culture due to access to the internet and it was different to say the 1950s or 1980s and that people were not taking on British culture and values etc.

I thought she made a lot of sense.

@Hotflushesandchilblains.. But he had access to many agencies.
How could more funding helped?
He was referred to prevent but at that time didn't meet their criteria and when he did apparently his case was closed.
he had access to cahms but both prevent and cahm rely on his interaction.. The police saw him with a knife and took him home when they could have arrested him, his parents reported him.
Nothing.

@rewilded I thought she was referring to his family though. We don't know or have any evidence to suggest they don't love the UK?
Their other son is fine.
I don't know why or how axel himself was supposed to feel about the UK when he didn't know any difference.
However one does wonder whether autism and bullying helped to shape his future and what in school are we doing about bullying right from reception?

I said I agreed with the failures. But the failures aren’t the root cause.

She’s a vile opportunist hoping to rise on a wave of far right racism. There is no evidence yet that Rudakubana was in favour of ‘white genocide’. He was an extremely disturbed young man, autistic, bullied at school, isolated, angry, with mental health issues, who had become obsessed with genocides and easily-accessed violent content online. Not unlike the Brianna Ghey killers. Nobody seems to have known what to do with him. Starmer is right we have to look at agencies and expand their roles to deal with this growing threat. I have a horrible feeling that there are thousands of potential Rudakubanas in bedrooms around the country.

@BoldRed he was obsessed with the Rwanda genocide.
Interestingly neither starmer nor kemi has mentioned the autism aspect/ bullying /isolation.

Prevent had a definition of terrorism which did not include what this guy was expressing. It was beyond CAMHS (most CAMHS are completely overloaded and in my area, refer people over 16 to adult services which require a higher level of opt in than child services). Outreach is time consuming and expensive - but needs to be done for people like this. Whether it is more funding for existing services like Prevent or CAMHS, or looking at the (ever increasing) gaps between services and putting things in place for those people which would be the Integrated Care Boards responsibility, the simple fact is that all public services are limping along. Try asking your local ICB what their strategy is - they spend huge amounts of public money and are almost completely unaccountable. Increasing number of people are not getting intervention when their and other peoples safety depends on it. As I said, it is always a knee jerk to say people should get fired. It is a lot harder to hold systems to account.

I can't find much online about him having autism though? If he did he was clearly even more vulnerable and a threat. Integration as he was born here isn't really a key solution (it would have been for his parents ) but then Nadin Z made a valid point that if you are living in this country you need to abide by its values etc. This isn't the drift Kemi was on. But WHY also did his parents not alarm police etc ?? He had to stop his son from going in a taxi to previous school with a knife ! Surely you DO SOMETHING if you see this ?! Baffling

Completely not relevant to Stockport as he was born here.
however, I can see there needing to be a lot more support for children who have witnessed horrific things before finding home in the uk. There’s definitely a lot of support needed there.