Kemi B just suggested about Southport....

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

...murders.... that the reason these things happen is because people / immigrants are not being helped to integrate in our society and feel alienated. On Laura K show. Dear lord I'm sorry but that's ludicrous ... if I've misunderstood please help me out. Its really angered me !

@Hotflushesandchilblains I know all these agencies could do with far more funding but he had access to services.

He didn't meet the criteria for prevent and when he did start to look at Al queda stuff his case was "closed". Funding or stupidity?
He did have cahms and he didn't seem to want to engage.
He had a specialist school reaching out to him with police support because he terrified them.
The police saw him with a knife I don't know if the police got involved when he smashed the school boy risk.

I'm not seeing a funding issue I'm seeing a gaping hole of where to put him and what to do.

He was diagnosed with autism years ago. He had an EHCP. He was under CAMHS. His parents repeatedly called the police. There’s no evidence that his parents knew he had a knife during the taxi incident, but even if they did, the police had found Rudakubana carrying a knife and simply returned him to his mother.

there was a referral service for this. For violent children, likely to carry knives and join gangs.
it just disappeared with our 14 years of austerity. He didn’t meet prevents criteria as its terror related and he needed the original service to help the loner incel type

They did. The parents called the police at least six times. And each time the police came out, they did nothing.

For these 'lone wolves', what can be done?

There have been loners, misfits and misanthropes across history

In the last century, they were socially isolated, may have found pen pals in the back of specialist magazines, gone to war and died, been institutionalised or imprisoned/executed after a similar outburst as what happened in Southport

What's happening now, is that these once socially isolated individuals have access to the Internet at a very early age

This allows them access to media which fuels their illnesses/skewed points of view and allows them to find other individuals which reinforce their point of view

Search engine and social media algorithms actually use a 'more of the same as before' programming to show content similar to that searched for in the past

Perhaps there were warning signs in earlier childhood, or perhaps puberty triggered something

His parents, social services, his school and the police did seek help fron the PREVENT team and he was under the purview of local mental health services.

He had no particular ideology (religion, Andrew Tate misogyny, racial influence) and did not fit the 'normal criteria' for a PREVENT referral

The investigation into what happened, who knew what, when and how it got to this stage will take some years

theres occasionally posts on the teenage board where people are struggling with support. Police unable to do much, social services just batting it back.

Shes a rabble rousing disgrace
Those comments are irrelevant to Southport given AR was a christian was born in UK. If he wasn't integrated it was because of system failings in response to whatever was going on with him.

How have we failed this spectacularly! I despair and its only getting worse ... a lot of talk by all agencies and government but where's the action. But of course :..lessons will be learnt ... pah !

..as I said on the other thread, there are very few services for parents who’s child is violent, due to Autism, and with co~morbid mental health conditions. We only go what we nededed be investing in private treatment, and constant badgering of CAMHS.

My previously violent team is now not violent at all, working part-time, and applying for Apprenticeships. . I fear where we might have been if we did not have the knowledge, resource and contacts, that we have.

When the enquiry is compete, we will see systemic failure

It all went to pot after Bevan.

ASD was a comorbidity and nothing more. He clearly had separate issues giving him urges to harm and kill.

I'd like to know more about his early years and the bullying.

We need to do far more to have a zero tolerance on bullying.

I think he was an angry loner to start with who then found a justification for his rage. I understand what Badenoch is saying about individual immigrants remaining connected to their old values because they can now keep in touch via the internet rather than receiving the occasional letter from home, and I think it's an interesting point. I just don't feel it's applicable to this particular case.

I thought they had and had asked for help with him, which was not forthcoming. Some people are so disturbed that all you can do is take them off the streets hopefully before they harm anyone. I don't think in this case it's anything to do with immigration. His parents had, as far as I've read, integrated. They were Christian. Is Kemi Badenoch saying that if her British born children , God forbid, grew up to do something awful, they should be deported to Nigeria? What does she mean by ' all options?

@infertilitychallenges perhaps but his hyper focus was on violence wasn't it and that could have been prompted by his knowledge of his family history and being bullied.

What's happening now, is that these once socially isolated individuals have access to the Internet at a very early age
@Gingernaut
This is a very salient point!!

Whoops

There are clearly colossal problems with the Prevent programme - it's entirely unfit for purpose. That needs to be radically overhauled, asap.

I'm shocked that Badenoch is trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. I held her in such high esteem as well.

But the funding issue is what drives the gaping hole of what to do.

He was way beyond what CAMHS could do. But even supposing that was not the case, why do you think that the emphasis is on people engaging and coming to appointments? Because years ago, when services were not under such pressure, you could go out, see what was happening and try to engage with and assess your client. More pressure on services = less of this happening. It has not been talked about a lot, but over in Nottingham, the service working with that killer had been told to concentrate on a certain type of work, which meant regular activities were suspended - the ones that may have identified the threat quicker.

But none of that happens for shits and giggles. Managers who tell their team to shift focus are responding to pressure. Which comes because of finances.

As @BourbonsAreOverated said, there used to be a service which would have been perfect for his needs. But it went with austerity.

So, yes, it is all to do with funding in the end.

I’m sorry for your experiences and wish you could have more support. But you’re wrong if you think that other people - immigrants- are receiving that support. They are categorically not. Unfortunately it’s useful for the politicians who shrunk the level of support available to blame immigrants, who have no political voice or representation, rather than owning up to the situation and/ or doing anything about it

I'm just surprised she's saying a second generation boy with autism is supposed to feel integrated and grateful to be here.

He's uk born but 100th generation people with autism feel isolated and failed by our education system.

@NotinToTintin and what do you think about the men coming here from difficult backgrounds who also may have sen and proclivity to violence who won't be on any services radar

Do you have a link to claims that he wanted a white genocide? I've googled but can't find any reference to this. Only that he was obsessed with genocide in general. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just haven't seen this reported.

My family is from a Commonwealth country. We're here because the British government asked us to be due to a skills shortage about 60 years ago. My grandad came here to work.

It was always drilled into us that we lived in a Christian country with certain customs. Yes, we could still eat food from our country and celebrate our own religion and festivals, BUT we were also brought up to celebrate Christian festivals as we lived here. Christmas is still the biggest occasion in our family.

My grandad and his family joined the local Working Mens Club and socialised with people from all walks of life, from when they got here to now. They taught us about their cultures and we learnt about theirs.

I was born here, but the attitude of my family and not sticking in close circles was what allowed me to do the same. I got bullied for it in school by the other brown girls btw, because my family didn't come from the same country as them and weren't traditional enough for their liking.

When I go abroad, I look up how to conduct myself in that country, according to their traditions.

It's not racist to expect people to behave like this, but to tar us all with the same brush and talk about "immigrant behaviour" as a collective, absolutely is. The UK ASKED my family to come here because they needed us. We didn't just waltz in because we felt like it, so this "too many immigrants" thing is a product of the UK's own actions. We're not all illegal.