To think it's the education system timetable's fault, not my son's fault

[SamVussain]

Parents evening last night.
Secondary school, year 8.
Every single subject teacher said exactly the same thing: "Sam loses focus half way or 3/4 way through a lesson, he works really well and he engages well and demonstrates good learning, but suddenly I see him staring out of the window for a few seconds and I have to say "Sam!" to get him back on to concentrating again!" Or "Sam applies himself then half way through the lesson loses focus and starts fiddling with his pen or rubber and I have to say "Sam! Concentrate!" and then he puts it down and starts concentrating again, but I shouldn't have to say it to him at all". Every one of them said "Intelligent boy, well behaved, polite, good knowledge levels, but loses focus at points during the lesson which he needs to stop doing, he needs to apply himself 100% throughout the lesson".
Lessons are either 50 minutes long or 100 minutes long.
By the time it got to the 4th subject teacher saying this, I started saying that there is scientific based evidence to prove that regular brain breaks are essential, that the brain needs to stop learning at regular intervals, take a brain break, then resume. From what I've read, time intervals vary, but some research suggests brain breaks are needed as often as every 20 minutes whilst studying. But this was dismissed by every teacher I said it to. I also said to one particular teacher that there is evidence to prove that 'fiddling' with something, moving the hand and fiddling with a small object, can really help some people to concentrate and apply themselves better. She said he sometimes fiddles with his rubber and that he needs to stop. I asked if it was disrupting any other pupils, or making a noise. She said no. I asked if it disrupted her. She said no, but that it meant to her that he wasn't focusing on the lesson if he was fiddling with his rubber. I asked if he fiddles with it all through the lesson, and she said "Oh no no no no no, not at all, no, just at some points for a short while". And I said "Well, that's alright then. Let him. It might be that it helps him focus". She then said if that was my opinion then I have to apply for "special permission from the SEN department to request for him to be allowed to fiddle."
DS is not diagnosed with any SEN. I'm very aware that innatentive ADHD could cause this. But equally, is it not just that my DS needs more regular brain breaks than what the school timetable allows for?
Why has my DS got to avoid occasionally fiddling with his rubber if it helps him to keep concentrating, and why has he got to avoid looking out of the window for 10 seconds if that helps him to give his brain a break before refocusing again at points during a 100 minute lesson?
I talked to DS about it afterwards, and he admitted that sometimes his brain starts feeling overloaded with information in the more difficult acadwmic lessons so he looks out of the window to relax his brain, then after a short time (10 seconds or so) he feels like he can refocus again and gets back on track. He attended with me, and he seemed to feel quite deflated that all the teachers of academic lessons said it. He said "Why don't they notice how much I am applying myself ".
Interestingly, none of the teachers of movement lessons said it - PE, DT, etc.
I'm feeling irritated this morning that every teacher of academic lessons said my DS needs to focus 100% throughout every lesson, yet the school timetable is not designed to allow regular brain breaks for children and instead expects them to study for long periods of time without any loss of concentration whatsoever.
I'm really interested to know other parents thoughts?

Why do you bother going to parents evening? All the teachers have told you he loses focus. You have chosen to see this as personal or unfair criticism. It is simply info. They are mentioning it because he is probably missing out on instruction or not doing as much as he could. Presumably not all the kids lose focus as much as he does. If it was complete ly standard they wouldn't mention it.

They are mentioning it because your kid is behaving out of the norm.

They don’t see this with the majority of kids, therefore this is something you need to get your kid to work on rather than getting defensive and trying to find excuses.

Best practice is to structure lessons in chunks that cater to children’s likely attention spans (rule of thumb is age + 5 minutes, so year 8 should be able to focus for 17-18 minutes). However, sometimes learning involves extended tasks - especially writing - and you have to practice.

If he is gazing out of the window it counts as thinking time anyway.

It sounds like they are keeping you in the loop. If I were you I would treat it as an info point, not an action point.

Sounds like a good learning environment if the teachers able to set a task and everybody does it for 90 minutes. Keep an eye on their marking because feedback will be where the students make progress, if they are already focused in lessons.

If they are all saying this it's for your benefit and they want you aware and trying to help. Maybe schedule a meeting with the head to try and get a better idea what exactly your son can do to help. I don't think you should disregard what the teachers are saying..

Focus is something you have to work on with him.

Longish lessons are nothing new. Used to dread double maths on Monday mornings in the 1970s (1 hour 20 mins then).

That focus was crucial, though, when exams began to feature.

It’s definitely the education system rather than your son 🙄

Wait til he has a job and has to concentrate for 8 hours with 2 breaks only! Your assertions regarding brain breaks is not scientific - our brains HAVE to be focussed 24/7 or else we would literally die.
Fiddle toys are a useful tool - but the student should be ‘fiddling’ WHILST completing their task, not instead of. That’s their purpose. Staring out of the window just makes it look like he’s switched off. If he feels like he needs to have a little break, then he should do what I do - pretend he's thinking about his work whilst he’s really thinking about something else. Works a treat!!!

It's about 10% of children with ADHD isn't it? So 90% can focus for this length. It makes sense I would think to have an education system which suits the majority, short of a completely unaffordable bespoke system. I'm surprised they wouldn't let him have a no distracting others fiddle toy, i think that's fairly standard in every school I'm aware of.

If your son needs adjustments that other children don't then you should ask for a meeting with the school to get them in place. I'm in Scotland and it's called a planning meeting - might be different elsewhere.

My 12 year old daughter doesn't have a diagnosis yet (in the waitlist) but we have it set out that she can use (silent) fidgets, go into the hall for a break if it's too noisy, and a few other things. There's no shame in my daughter needing extra support and I certainly don't blame the education system for working better for the majority of children. They see so many kids every day so clearly your son is standing out as being unique in comparison.

Maybe email the school/teachers and thank them for being it to your attention, then ask the teachers to see what happens if they don't say anything when they see your son lose concentration. He has said that he is just giving his brain a break and looking out the window. If he isn't disturbing anybody, for example, nattering with the person sitting next to him, then this will be a chance to see if he is able to bring his focus back to the lesson without a teacher telling him.

You seem to dismiss the idea that it could be SEN, why is this? What you describe is something that teachers will flag as potential Sen and it is worth getting in touch with the Sendco. They have said that he could be given permission for fiddle toys via the Sendco. If he needs help to focus as his attention span is lower than other students on the class, this is exactly what the sendco is for! They can help, but you do need to ask for help.

The reality is that exams are hours long so having strategies to help with this is important. If you flag it now, there is plenty of time to build support before GCSEs.

YANBU OP there are few adults that could concentrate for 100 minutes sat in one chair without losing focus for a few minutes. As long as he is refocusing after I see no problem.

As a primary teacher I find it staggering how little secondary teachers seem to know about this. As you say there is such a lot of research and evidence to show that children need regular breaks and if you look at other more successful education systems they do that to ensure learning and focus is achievable for children.

I think you’ve done all you can do you’ve talked to him and them and as long as he isn’t rude or not refocusing then I’m not sure what more you can do.

My DC's school does this so they don't have as much corridor behaviour to manage. I agree it's poor practice. My DD cannot cope with it. She's being assessed for an EHCP and the educational psychologist said 100 minute lessons are not good for most kids.

I agree get a meeting with Senco to discuss so they can see if adjustments are needed - rest breaks are given in exams if a normal way of working etc and paperwork in place and it sounds as if it might be needed.

the education system is going to change (although possibly it should but that is moot) what you can see is what you can get in place for your son to help him

I agree it's the education system and its inability to flex to include all different types of learning styles and attention spans.
Your son obviously tries, he's focusing as much as he can at the beginning of the lesson. In an ideal world, there would be mini brain breaks or more engaging ways to deliver information. It's one size fits all. It's up to you, maybe checking for a diagnosis might help you better understand your son and how to support his particular learning style. He may be neurotypical but just has a different learning style. More creative / daydreamer.

"Why don't they notice how much I am applying myself ".

you said yourself, they all did notice, and comment In it!

Our brains are absolutely not focused 24/7, what a load of nonsense.

I'm a teacher, your kid sounds fine. State school teachers get bollocked by Ofsted if kids are looking out the window, they're encouraged by SLT to see it as a mortal sin. I've taught many kids who ended up getting straight 8/9, A/ A* while also having the odd look out the window.

School lessons are often not structured well and the overall system isn't set up well for human learning.

However the system won't change for your son, so you have three choices - change setting, encourage him to focus more consistently, or accept teachers will continue to raise this.

What’s the point in this post? You’ve already dismissed the idea that anything but what you think might have any semblance of reality to it so are you expecting a collective hive mind of agreement just after more people to disagree with?

All my lessons at school were 1 hour 20 mins. I didn't have problems concentrating (aside from the usual chatting as teenagers), it isn't anything new.

If the teachers are bringing this up it's because they have noticed something out the ordinary. Rather than ascertaining blame to the education system and blaming others, why don't you actually focus on getting the right support for your son.

Good suggestion

By the time the teacher has introduced the tasks, done some full class teaching and set the work they are doing by themselves half of a 50 minute lesson will be done, ok 100 minutes may require a bit more creativity on the teacher's behalf to keep them all engaged but not 50 minutes that's fine.

Unfortunately our ability to concentrate is dropping and whilst research is ongoing, electronic devices are likely the blame, I see it in myself, we are re wiring our brains to need constant stimulation, making longer periods of concentration harder - I'm not a researcher myself but I know someone in this field and have submitted a survey to her research recently.

The teacher will be more than aware that some children are struggling in longer lessons and also some are just not behaving, don't tell her how to do her job.

OMG! How can they not know this? That's actually quite horrifying that they all appear to have a really poor understanding of the learning process considering they're supposedly qualified teachers.

Don't let them get away with thinking they're right and you're wrong. Be firm and tell them that your son clearly needs regular breaks and that you'd like them to factor this into the lesson plan. After all, the other kids would benefit from a short break too.

My experience through three DC, including one with ADHD, is that they adjust to what they have.

We had 40 minute lessons at school they had an hour. I commented that I thought an hour must be tough. They replied that they couldn't see how 40 minutes got anything done and an hour was much easier to settle down and get stuff done.
They moved to two hours during COVID, and initially had a bit of a moan, but fairly shortly were finding it much better and were really put out when it moved back to an hour.

The teachers, who teach many children every year, are telling you his behaviour is noticeably out of the ordinary.
That's for you to consider, and whether you want to do something to help.

But I will say for my one with ADHD, for him it was a relief to be diagnosed. He felt it change comments like you had from being a criticism to being a comment about something to work on.

There is quite a difference between input and output. Taking in new information for 100 mins at a time is intense, even for adults. Especially multiple times a day. Working at your desk, where you can pause to think or pop to the water cooler for a few mins for a mini break, is entirely different.