To think it's the education system timetable's fault, not my son's fault

[SamVussain]

Parents evening last night.
Secondary school, year 8.
Every single subject teacher said exactly the same thing: "Sam loses focus half way or 3/4 way through a lesson, he works really well and he engages well and demonstrates good learning, but suddenly I see him staring out of the window for a few seconds and I have to say "Sam!" to get him back on to concentrating again!" Or "Sam applies himself then half way through the lesson loses focus and starts fiddling with his pen or rubber and I have to say "Sam! Concentrate!" and then he puts it down and starts concentrating again, but I shouldn't have to say it to him at all". Every one of them said "Intelligent boy, well behaved, polite, good knowledge levels, but loses focus at points during the lesson which he needs to stop doing, he needs to apply himself 100% throughout the lesson".
Lessons are either 50 minutes long or 100 minutes long.
By the time it got to the 4th subject teacher saying this, I started saying that there is scientific based evidence to prove that regular brain breaks are essential, that the brain needs to stop learning at regular intervals, take a brain break, then resume. From what I've read, time intervals vary, but some research suggests brain breaks are needed as often as every 20 minutes whilst studying. But this was dismissed by every teacher I said it to. I also said to one particular teacher that there is evidence to prove that 'fiddling' with something, moving the hand and fiddling with a small object, can really help some people to concentrate and apply themselves better. She said he sometimes fiddles with his rubber and that he needs to stop. I asked if it was disrupting any other pupils, or making a noise. She said no. I asked if it disrupted her. She said no, but that it meant to her that he wasn't focusing on the lesson if he was fiddling with his rubber. I asked if he fiddles with it all through the lesson, and she said "Oh no no no no no, not at all, no, just at some points for a short while". And I said "Well, that's alright then. Let him. It might be that it helps him focus". She then said if that was my opinion then I have to apply for "special permission from the SEN department to request for him to be allowed to fiddle."
DS is not diagnosed with any SEN. I'm very aware that innatentive ADHD could cause this. But equally, is it not just that my DS needs more regular brain breaks than what the school timetable allows for?
Why has my DS got to avoid occasionally fiddling with his rubber if it helps him to keep concentrating, and why has he got to avoid looking out of the window for 10 seconds if that helps him to give his brain a break before refocusing again at points during a 100 minute lesson?
I talked to DS about it afterwards, and he admitted that sometimes his brain starts feeling overloaded with information in the more difficult acadwmic lessons so he looks out of the window to relax his brain, then after a short time (10 seconds or so) he feels like he can refocus again and gets back on track. He attended with me, and he seemed to feel quite deflated that all the teachers of academic lessons said it. He said "Why don't they notice how much I am applying myself ".
Interestingly, none of the teachers of movement lessons said it - PE, DT, etc.
I'm feeling irritated this morning that every teacher of academic lessons said my DS needs to focus 100% throughout every lesson, yet the school timetable is not designed to allow regular brain breaks for children and instead expects them to study for long periods of time without any loss of concentration whatsoever.
I'm really interested to know other parents thoughts?

Right, so you never look out the window, pause, think about sth else for a sec every now and then when you're working? Don't you ever go to the toilet or make a cup of tea when you feel you need it? But kids aren't allowed because they have to be focused the entire time? Absolute bollocks! It's well known that our brains aren't switched on all of the time, far from it. There are many studies to prove that. Our brains only focus on what's new, important or essential, the rest is blanked out, in order to save energy.

In an office environment, well every office I have worked in and that's quite a few, line of sight is not a contractual condition so you can certainly look out of the window (on occasion) without it being considered disruptive!

A tale as old as time.
Did you not have a similar timetable when you were at school? Even as an adult I lose focus during that time....but I come back again. As are other students in these teachers classes. They refocus, your child is doing this more than the others and instead if looking st ways to support you are blaming the education system and those that work within it?

Yes but not all lessons were double although that is becoming more the norm. Teacher here (retired). I would have said that 50 minutes is long enough. Should be 20 mins, breather/quiz/change task then start again. 100 minutes is nearly 2 hrs. I honestly don't think that's feasible in an academic lesson without constant changes of task.
Re the fiddling, I went to a fairly strict grammar in the 70s. No one could have cared less about fiddling with a rubber. IMO. that's ridiculous.

Agree with this. Ask the teacher to time how long he is losing focus for and if he can regain focus on his own.

One thing that I dislike about labels is that if you are not diagnosed as ND, you are expected to just cope.

There is no such thing as normal.

Just because one child can concentrate or make it look like they’re concentrating for 100mins, doesn’t mean other children can do the same.

100min lessons are long and the lessons need to be structured in a way that there isn’t too much listening in one go, else your brain is bound to wonder, especially if it’s a boring subject.

My mind tends to wonder when I have any sort of work training/meeting that isn’t relevant to me and the person is just stood at the front rambling on.
I don’t even realise I’m not concentrating until I snap back into it.
I’ve even done it when someone is talking to me face to face.

This is why topic information is taught and re-taught in different ways to ensure everyone understands.

Your son isn’t doing anything wrong but then neither are the teachers.
I would just explain that he needs a brain break and he looking out of the window and having that visual nature brain break works for him.

I was taught by a man who midway through/when he felt them lagging, start a random conversation or make a joke or something for a couple of minutes because our brains need to have a break from that subject for a bit, to better understand it.

Absolutely this!

I was actually taught this when I was training to be a teacher too.

Yes eye contact and head forward are signs of paying attention but actually someone looking down at their note book, fiddling with their rubber or looking at a dot on the wall etc, doesn’t meant they are not listening.

In fact, if someone tells you to concentrate and listen really hard most people actually look up or down or close their eyes.

People just consider not giving eye contact rude (which is old fashioned) and a sign of not paying attention but you are absolutely right.

I can often look someone dead in the eye and still not pay attention 😂

I hear you OP.

My son finds it easier to concentrate on what the teacher is saying during input if he doodles whilst listening.

He's not allowed to doodle.

Against school rules.

All eyes on the teacher at all times whilst they are talking. If you look away you are NOT listening and can get a detention if it happens 3 times in one 100 minute lesson.

Ludicrous.

Unfortunately, you're THAT parent

She's really not.

I’m sorry you feel frustrated and your wee boy feels deflated.

My dd has adhd, she generally enjoys high school as lots of moving between lessons (they don’t do double periods thank goodness) but I feel very fortunate that her school are set up to give all kids the opportunity to move about, fiddle, she uses her iPad as a notebook which helps her keep focussed.

As for those saying that the world is set up that way, this is true but those that don’t do well without movement and breaks will be much happier in a career that has those things naturally so this is just a temporary thing to manage to get the right marks in exams to be able to access the career he wants.

Op, I’d speak to the SFL team for any support strategies and work with your son to identify what works for him and ensure his teachers are briefed. Hopefully the teachers learn something that fiddling does not mean not paying attention!

Yes and you're supposed to take regular movement breaks

If every teacher has pointed it out then it isn't the system, it's your DS. If it were the system, every kid would be tapping out for the second half of the lesson and your DS wouldn't stand out and it wouldn't be worth commenting on.

They are giving you a heads-up. Take it. If your DS is going to need things like rest breaks in exams, the earlier it gets established as his normal way of working, the better.

You might be right. But he isn't (or shouldn't be) doing the same task for 50/100minutes. Any decent teacher mixes up the lesson. Different activities/group work/pairs/experiments/demonstrations etc. this is a natural 'brain break' because you are doing something different.

I'm inclined to agree with you. Yes this isn't the case for every child but it is for yours and so the school should be more accommodating. I've had v similar with my much younger DC in primary, in fact you could be talking about my DC here! It comes across that the school think DC is doing it on purpose and should just "behave" esp when there isn't glaringly obvious SEN concerns but some kids just need more engagement/stimulation. It's easier and less damaging for a group of professionals to flex then forcing a child to fit in a mould. I feel like we raised our child to be a child and then they go to school age 4 and are expected to be robots. And yes this works for majority of children, they comply but not the case for every single one.

both my children do a musical instrument and they have the same teacher. Even in that short time about two thirds in he stops for a chat for a minute or 2 about how they are doing (doesn’t do it at the start) as he says they need a moment to rest and absorb what he has been saying and have a moment to refocus. By just chatting and having a minute it seems a help everyone he teaches and then they go back to it.

and as for concentrating for 8 hours as someone else said. I work in an office and I do not concentrate solidly for that time. I go the loo, I go make a coffee, I have chit chat with colleagues etc. all help just break the day up. Once you are past 45 mins or so it is hard to concentrate without a little bit of time just to refocus.