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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's the education system timetable's fault, not my son's fault

198 replies

SamVussain · 24/01/2025 07:22

Parents evening last night.
Secondary school, year 8.
Every single subject teacher said exactly the same thing: "Sam loses focus half way or 3/4 way through a lesson, he works really well and he engages well and demonstrates good learning, but suddenly I see him staring out of the window for a few seconds and I have to say "Sam!" to get him back on to concentrating again!" Or "Sam applies himself then half way through the lesson loses focus and starts fiddling with his pen or rubber and I have to say "Sam! Concentrate!" and then he puts it down and starts concentrating again, but I shouldn't have to say it to him at all". Every one of them said "Intelligent boy, well behaved, polite, good knowledge levels, but loses focus at points during the lesson which he needs to stop doing, he needs to apply himself 100% throughout the lesson".
Lessons are either 50 minutes long or 100 minutes long.
By the time it got to the 4th subject teacher saying this, I started saying that there is scientific based evidence to prove that regular brain breaks are essential, that the brain needs to stop learning at regular intervals, take a brain break, then resume. From what I've read, time intervals vary, but some research suggests brain breaks are needed as often as every 20 minutes whilst studying. But this was dismissed by every teacher I said it to. I also said to one particular teacher that there is evidence to prove that 'fiddling' with something, moving the hand and fiddling with a small object, can really help some people to concentrate and apply themselves better. She said he sometimes fiddles with his rubber and that he needs to stop. I asked if it was disrupting any other pupils, or making a noise. She said no. I asked if it disrupted her. She said no, but that it meant to her that he wasn't focusing on the lesson if he was fiddling with his rubber. I asked if he fiddles with it all through the lesson, and she said "Oh no no no no no, not at all, no, just at some points for a short while". And I said "Well, that's alright then. Let him. It might be that it helps him focus". She then said if that was my opinion then I have to apply for "special permission from the SEN department to request for him to be allowed to fiddle."
DS is not diagnosed with any SEN. I'm very aware that innatentive ADHD could cause this. But equally, is it not just that my DS needs more regular brain breaks than what the school timetable allows for?
Why has my DS got to avoid occasionally fiddling with his rubber if it helps him to keep concentrating, and why has he got to avoid looking out of the window for 10 seconds if that helps him to give his brain a break before refocusing again at points during a 100 minute lesson?
I talked to DS about it afterwards, and he admitted that sometimes his brain starts feeling overloaded with information in the more difficult acadwmic lessons so he looks out of the window to relax his brain, then after a short time (10 seconds or so) he feels like he can refocus again and gets back on track. He attended with me, and he seemed to feel quite deflated that all the teachers of academic lessons said it. He said "Why don't they notice how much I am applying myself ".
Interestingly, none of the teachers of movement lessons said it - PE, DT, etc.
I'm feeling irritated this morning that every teacher of academic lessons said my DS needs to focus 100% throughout every lesson, yet the school timetable is not designed to allow regular brain breaks for children and instead expects them to study for long periods of time without any loss of concentration whatsoever.
I'm really interested to know other parents thoughts?

OP posts:
Darkfloods · 24/01/2025 07:58

Does your DS refocus himself and complete his work if not reminded by the teacher? That’s what really matters.

My DH had an aptitude test during a work interview. When he moved to the next stage he was told he scored really highly which surprised them as he seemed to spend most of his time looking it of the window, to some it looks like a lack of focus but it helped him concentrate.----

Jobsharenightmare · 24/01/2025 08:03

Few teachers know anything at all about neurology and neuropsychology. They understand the absolute basics. So would really not be able to take on board what you're saying in a parents' evening. You are absolutely right and we encourage our staff to fiddle when needed too!

theykilledcassandrafirst · 24/01/2025 08:04

Don’t worry OP, with the way things are going, soon there won’t be any teachers to teach your children and you’ll be able to do it alllll by yourself.

Jesus wept, imagine if parents actually supported the school…

Everydayimhuffling · 24/01/2025 08:13

OP, they are telling you that your son struggles to concentrate more than other students. If it wasn't unusual then they wouldn't bother saying it. If it's in every lesson when he can't move around then it's definitely worth looking into. The accommodations that you are suggesting are available if there is a need. They are trying to help you identify that need. It's not a criticism; it's an observation.

Ellie1015 · 24/01/2025 08:14

You can get fidget jewellery, a ring you can wear that spins. Might be more subtle than rubber if you can find one he would wear. If it doesnt help then i would be seeking help to find other strategies ir diagnosis if needed.

Everydayimhuffling · 24/01/2025 08:14

OP, they are telling you that your son struggles to concentrate more than other students. If it wasn't unusual then they wouldn't bother saying it. If it's in every lesson when he can't move around then it's definitely worth looking into. The accommodations that you are suggesting are available if there is a need. They are trying to help you identify that need. It's not a criticism; it's an observation.

PokerFriedDips · 24/01/2025 08:14

YANBU and you do not have to have an official diagnosis of any official condition to be entitled to a reasonable adjustment at school to support an educational need and yoir DS clearly and demonstrably needs a 5 minute brain break half way through each lesson. Talk to the school SENCo to get this set up. An easy way to achieve this is for a small puzzle or activity is kept in the SEN room and at the half way point of each lesson DS is required to leave the room, go to the SEN room and do the next step of the puzzle then return to the lesson.

Caravaggiouch · 24/01/2025 08:16

So what do you plan to do or ask school to do? Because “change the whole timetable to suit my one child” isn’t going to happen.

Jayne35 · 24/01/2025 08:18

I used to do that, my parents were told I went off in my own world and was a daydreamer who lacked concentration. I managed to get through school fine though.

BellissimoGecko · 24/01/2025 08:21

MinnieBalloon · 24/01/2025 07:34

They are mentioning it because your kid is behaving out of the norm.

They don’t see this with the majority of kids, therefore this is something you need to get your kid to work on rather than getting defensive and trying to find excuses.

Edited

This.

Jobsharenightmare · 24/01/2025 08:21

Everydayimhuffling · 24/01/2025 08:14

OP, they are telling you that your son struggles to concentrate more than other students. If it wasn't unusual then they wouldn't bother saying it. If it's in every lesson when he can't move around then it's definitely worth looking into. The accommodations that you are suggesting are available if there is a need. They are trying to help you identify that need. It's not a criticism; it's an observation.

No they're saying he needs to concentrate. Not how can we help him to concentrate?

rattling · 24/01/2025 08:27

My 2nd year tutor at University knew this. Hour long tutorials had a 5 min break in the middle when we had a silly quiz about something other than chemistry. It was great. At high school I would just quietly zone out as the class went on as fidgeting would get you in trouble. I doodle to stay attentive in meetings now.

DinosaurMunch · 24/01/2025 08:28

passtherichteas · 24/01/2025 07:58

There is quite a difference between input and output. Taking in new information for 100 mins at a time is intense, even for adults. Especially multiple times a day. Working at your desk, where you can pause to think or pop to the water cooler for a few mins for a mini break, is entirely different.

That's not what school lessons are like though. Normally it's a few minutes of teaching followed by a task followed by a bit more teaching or going through answers or whatever.

I'd say that if a child quietly losing focus for a minute is noticeable, they must have a very well behaved class!

Anyway I wouldn't go crazy about this. Take the positives, as long as your son is doing well academically it doesn't really matter, he just needs to be less obvious in the way he loses focus so it doesn't annoy the teacher. If a teacher brings up an issue like this, rather than going on the defensive it's best to ask them how they think the issue can be helped - massages their ego a bit, makes you look keen and they might either have a useful suggestion or realise it's not that simple.

Seeking some kind of special help so he can fiddle with his rubber is insane and why we end up with 70% of university students labelled as disabled! No one size does not fit all with education and it never will so just make the best of it.

DinosaurMunch · 24/01/2025 08:29

PokerFriedDips · 24/01/2025 08:14

YANBU and you do not have to have an official diagnosis of any official condition to be entitled to a reasonable adjustment at school to support an educational need and yoir DS clearly and demonstrably needs a 5 minute brain break half way through each lesson. Talk to the school SENCo to get this set up. An easy way to achieve this is for a small puzzle or activity is kept in the SEN room and at the half way point of each lesson DS is required to leave the room, go to the SEN room and do the next step of the puzzle then return to the lesson.

Oh come on how ridiculous. How would that be better for anyone than him looking out of the window for 2 minutes??

BendingSpoons · 24/01/2025 08:31

Soontobe60 · 24/01/2025 07:43

Wait til he has a job and has to concentrate for 8 hours with 2 breaks only! Your assertions regarding brain breaks is not scientific - our brains HAVE to be focussed 24/7 or else we would literally die.
Fiddle toys are a useful tool - but the student should be ‘fiddling’ WHILST completing their task, not instead of. That’s their purpose. Staring out of the window just makes it look like he’s switched off. If he feels like he needs to have a little break, then he should do what I do - pretend he's thinking about his work whilst he’s really thinking about something else. Works a treat!!!

This depends on your job, but I doubt many jobs don't allow a 10 second look out the window or a quick fidget/shuffle around. I have a fairly intense job. I can go fill up my water bottle or go to the loo when needed, or even just walk to the printer. Even when I have a whole day of f2f training, I can still get my water bottle out my bag for a quick shift around.

I agree with the OP that if the behaviour is not disruptive and is brief, then it's not a big deal. Still worth mentioning at parents' evening but ok to continue.

Diomi · 24/01/2025 08:32

I’m a teacher and I really agree with you OP and so does the research. Most of the pupils won’t be focusing much by this stage, but they are probably better at hiding it. The need to move about is one of the reasons why children ask to go to the toilet during lessons and why they suddenly get very conscientious about sharpening their pencils.

A lot of schools do movement breaks. I know teachers who get their class to do squats and jumping jacks after about 30mins/40mins each lesson. A lot of schools have regular short mini breaks so that children can get up and move around.

Unfortunately, none of that will help your son much if the school aren’t doing those things. I’d tell him to take up any legitimate opportunity for moving around including handing out things, presenting, volunteering to demonstrate etc. Putting his hand up and engaging in the lesson will also help. Fiddling with bluetack under the desk is a quiet way of fiddling with something, but some teachers do get stroppy about that.

Porcuporpoise · 24/01/2025 08:35

Tbf the average secondary school lessos provides plenty of brain breaks - they don't just lecture them for 60 min straight.

Octavia64 · 24/01/2025 08:37

Teacher.

I used to sit kids who fiddled with stuff at the back of the class as honestly it did really disrupt the class.

They usually thought they were being quiet and they weren't. Dropping things, making noises, etc.

Staring out of the window will be interpreted as him not paying attention as well. If he needs a break from focusing (and most children at his age are able to focus for a lesson) he should look at his book or similar as it's less obvious.

Autther · 24/01/2025 08:38

Soontobe60 · 24/01/2025 07:43

Wait til he has a job and has to concentrate for 8 hours with 2 breaks only! Your assertions regarding brain breaks is not scientific - our brains HAVE to be focussed 24/7 or else we would literally die.
Fiddle toys are a useful tool - but the student should be ‘fiddling’ WHILST completing their task, not instead of. That’s their purpose. Staring out of the window just makes it look like he’s switched off. If he feels like he needs to have a little break, then he should do what I do - pretend he's thinking about his work whilst he’s really thinking about something else. Works a treat!!!

Well 1. That is nonsense and 2. This is a child in year 8.

stichguru · 24/01/2025 08:39

As a teaching assistant of many years, I would say both your son and his teachers have good points. Your son sounds like he recognises when he is struggling with focus, and has a good system to manage his struggles. However, the teachers are right that by year 8, most children would be able to focus in bigger chunks. Lessons and exams over the next 3 years, are not going to be set up so that he needs as many breaks as he does, and depending what field of work he goes into and how pressured it is, work may not be either. In GCSEs he will be working to a set time frame and if he needs breaks, he'll lose working time unless he has a pre-agreed adjustment of rest breaks. It maybe that your son goes into a practical field of work, but in an office, it's not unusual to need to focus continuously for an hour. I don't think it's something to worry about exactly, but it is something to work on and look at how he will manage going forward.

PokerFriedDips · 24/01/2025 08:44

DinosaurMunch · 24/01/2025 08:29

Oh come on how ridiculous. How would that be better for anyone than him looking out of the window for 2 minutes??

It's not for 2 minutes. It's for the whole 2nd half of the lesson. If it were for 2 minutes the teachers would not be raising it as a problem.

Ppzd · 24/01/2025 08:49

Backtothe90ties · 24/01/2025 07:46

YANBU OP there are few adults that could concentrate for 100 minutes sat in one chair without losing focus for a few minutes. As long as he is refocusing after I see no problem.

As a primary teacher I find it staggering how little secondary teachers seem to know about this. As you say there is such a lot of research and evidence to show that children need regular breaks and if you look at other more successful education systems they do that to ensure learning and focus is achievable for children.

I think you’ve done all you can do you’ve talked to him and them and as long as he isn’t rude or not refocusing then I’m not sure what more you can do.

Completely agree! All the people here saying it's your son's fault (as if it wasn't proven that we all need regular breaks and can't keep focus for very long, even more so children!) are hypocrites! Ask them if they could have back to back 50-100min meetings all day with 100% focus at all of them, they'd be lying if they said yes. I wish the education system here was more like the German or Scandinavian ones 😭

Goldenbear · 24/01/2025 08:49

Soontobe60 · 24/01/2025 07:43

Wait til he has a job and has to concentrate for 8 hours with 2 breaks only! Your assertions regarding brain breaks is not scientific - our brains HAVE to be focussed 24/7 or else we would literally die.
Fiddle toys are a useful tool - but the student should be ‘fiddling’ WHILST completing their task, not instead of. That’s their purpose. Staring out of the window just makes it look like he’s switched off. If he feels like he needs to have a little break, then he should do what I do - pretend he's thinking about his work whilst he’s really thinking about something else. Works a treat!!!

In the workplace that is not always the case though. I work in an office as does DH and we have 20-20-20 rule posters all over the office to avoid eye strain. Work on a screen for 20 minutes, look away for 20 secs at something that is 20 feet away so I often look out of the window. Equally, in my workplace as with DH's that is design orientated informal chit chat is encouraged for ideas so you definitely have coffee breaks probably as much as every hour.

Goldenbear · 24/01/2025 08:53

Oh and my colleague has a pen they move around in circles in their hand occasionally, I notice but I'm not bothered by it, they sometimes read bits of their emails out loud to themselves sometimes to process what they are being asked. Again, that's life, in some work environments it's really important to be able to get on with work without expecting complete silence.

NameChangedOfc · 24/01/2025 08:57

Backtothe90ties · 24/01/2025 07:46

YANBU OP there are few adults that could concentrate for 100 minutes sat in one chair without losing focus for a few minutes. As long as he is refocusing after I see no problem.

As a primary teacher I find it staggering how little secondary teachers seem to know about this. As you say there is such a lot of research and evidence to show that children need regular breaks and if you look at other more successful education systems they do that to ensure learning and focus is achievable for children.

I think you’ve done all you can do you’ve talked to him and them and as long as he isn’t rude or not refocusing then I’m not sure what more you can do.

Former secondary teacher here and I couldn't agree more with this.
YANBU, OP. The whole thing sounds orwellian: you need a diagnosis to be allowed to fiddle, FFS 🤣

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