To think it's the education system timetable's fault, not my son's fault

[SamVussain]

Parents evening last night.
Secondary school, year 8.
Every single subject teacher said exactly the same thing: "Sam loses focus half way or 3/4 way through a lesson, he works really well and he engages well and demonstrates good learning, but suddenly I see him staring out of the window for a few seconds and I have to say "Sam!" to get him back on to concentrating again!" Or "Sam applies himself then half way through the lesson loses focus and starts fiddling with his pen or rubber and I have to say "Sam! Concentrate!" and then he puts it down and starts concentrating again, but I shouldn't have to say it to him at all". Every one of them said "Intelligent boy, well behaved, polite, good knowledge levels, but loses focus at points during the lesson which he needs to stop doing, he needs to apply himself 100% throughout the lesson".
Lessons are either 50 minutes long or 100 minutes long.
By the time it got to the 4th subject teacher saying this, I started saying that there is scientific based evidence to prove that regular brain breaks are essential, that the brain needs to stop learning at regular intervals, take a brain break, then resume. From what I've read, time intervals vary, but some research suggests brain breaks are needed as often as every 20 minutes whilst studying. But this was dismissed by every teacher I said it to. I also said to one particular teacher that there is evidence to prove that 'fiddling' with something, moving the hand and fiddling with a small object, can really help some people to concentrate and apply themselves better. She said he sometimes fiddles with his rubber and that he needs to stop. I asked if it was disrupting any other pupils, or making a noise. She said no. I asked if it disrupted her. She said no, but that it meant to her that he wasn't focusing on the lesson if he was fiddling with his rubber. I asked if he fiddles with it all through the lesson, and she said "Oh no no no no no, not at all, no, just at some points for a short while". And I said "Well, that's alright then. Let him. It might be that it helps him focus". She then said if that was my opinion then I have to apply for "special permission from the SEN department to request for him to be allowed to fiddle."
DS is not diagnosed with any SEN. I'm very aware that innatentive ADHD could cause this. But equally, is it not just that my DS needs more regular brain breaks than what the school timetable allows for?
Why has my DS got to avoid occasionally fiddling with his rubber if it helps him to keep concentrating, and why has he got to avoid looking out of the window for 10 seconds if that helps him to give his brain a break before refocusing again at points during a 100 minute lesson?
I talked to DS about it afterwards, and he admitted that sometimes his brain starts feeling overloaded with information in the more difficult acadwmic lessons so he looks out of the window to relax his brain, then after a short time (10 seconds or so) he feels like he can refocus again and gets back on track. He attended with me, and he seemed to feel quite deflated that all the teachers of academic lessons said it. He said "Why don't they notice how much I am applying myself ".
Interestingly, none of the teachers of movement lessons said it - PE, DT, etc.
I'm feeling irritated this morning that every teacher of academic lessons said my DS needs to focus 100% throughout every lesson, yet the school timetable is not designed to allow regular brain breaks for children and instead expects them to study for long periods of time without any loss of concentration whatsoever.
I'm really interested to know other parents thoughts?

What I don’t get with posts like this, and defensive posters like these, is how they think they’re helping with the problem. What is the point of calling out every teacher and the entire education system? Does it make you or your son feel better? Does it help with the problem?

It is what it is. Wouldn’t you do better focusing your efforts (ha) on helping him cope with the world he lives in rather than railing at the world for not being to his specific ideal?

@C152 sums it up perfectly, OP: "They key is that your child doesn't let poor teaching techniques impact his learning".

There’s an absolutely weird thing where people think you have to be looking compliant to be listening.
Stop fiddling and look at me if you are listening sort of thing.
It’s basically a power play and a societal perception of respect.
Unfortunately it’s rife in schools. Along with ableism etc.
Not much to do than either mask and conform, get demotivated or remove from situation.

I disagree with this. This can change for the better and children are the best way of facilitating that unfortunately because adults suck at it.

Sometimes i would lose focus during lessons. In maths i would day dream about the football results. It actually helped me to understand things better. I passed all my gcses and i have 3 degrees. I did have longer lectures at uni but the tutors would give us short breaks.

You could word for word be describing my 2DSs...both were diagnosed with ADHD aged ten. Theyre now adults and both work in careers that require focus and precision.

But the working world, the wider world isn't like that. I think it's polite and fine to acknowledge the teacher's observations but it's a funny thing to address with your child, I would feel ridiculous telling my child who is academically doing well to watch his/her line of sight. Equally, schools have zero money to address these things as do GPs, if looking out the window is a symptom of something- is it? If he is going to study A levels the OP's son won't get extra time unless it is legitimate, even a private diagnosis is not guaranteed extra time in exams at my son's state sixth form college so what is the point in making a big deal out of something that is perfectly regular in the world he lives in. School's aren't representative of working environments as they obviously have a different dynamic that includes discipline, shouting and limited negotiation on matters as obviously the teacher has to take charge.

Absolutely and again not a criticism as daydreaming (for lack of a better word) can be a good thing.

i guess I’m asking more generally is more around - has it gotten worse or as you have suggested it’s always been there.

Sure but aren’t schools supposed to be preparing kids for the future and working environments?

But why is this this better?
My DC, including the one with ADHD found longer lessons better for concentration. They loved the 2 hours ones over COVID.

One size doesn't fit all, but sometimes you can't adjust in a way that's better for every individual.

But that isn't categorically how the working world works, it depends where you work but I have never known a job to entail an hour's concentration or even 50 minutes. If you work in an office you're going to be working on a screen, health and safety advice literally suggests the 20:20:20 rule so no, that won't be a requirement.

A school is not like work in any sense as you are being taught stuff and just have to take information in and listen to instructions. Work is much more dynamic than that and you are only taught stuff on a training course or if you are shadowing someone but that's not going to be 100% of your working time either weeks wise or day wise so it isn't the same.

I would add for university you really need to be adept at learning about subjects without instruction. If you only ever learn things via someone standing in front of you requesting your line of sight be at them, then you won't go far in life.

This reply really goes to the root of the problem.

Let's assume (obvs don't know if true or not of the OP's son, just an example) that this child does have problems focusing for longer than 30 minutes at a time. Your suggestion is that his school and his teachers change things to make his (not everyone's, just his) life "better", by which I assume you mean giving him frequent breaks to he can refocus. Lots of people with jobs to do changing themselves to suit this one boy - never mind any other child or whatever else the job entails in terms of benchmarks and stresses and deadlines etc. Let's just assume they do this.

What happens next year?

And in his GCSE years?

And in his A Level years?

And when he gets to University, where lectures can be 2 hours long and nobody gives a shit whether you're even there?

And what about when he starts working?

Do you think that everyone, everywhere will change to help this boy NOT change himself?

Isn't is better FOR THE BOY if he learns how to adapt to the tens or hundreds of different situations he's going to find himself in over the course of his life? Why would his mother instead choose to rail against this one system at this point in his life? (Incidentally, it's possible to do two things at the same time. Ask anyone who's overcome any form of discrimination how they first had to adapt and then fight the system from inside).

I have never known a job to entail an hour's concentration or even 50 minutes

Seriously?? I think that's more about you, than the real world.

Yes, seriously, mainly because I've worked in offices my whole adult life and you shouldn't stare at a computer screen for longer than 20 minutes plus the kind of work I do needs me to be chatting to people as and when, outside of meetings, it is unlikely it would sit undisturbed for 50 minutes, it is the same with DH and my colleagues.

What jobs do you do (if you work) that require to not look out of a window?

They really don't think that. They don't have time.

Lawyer
Barrister
Trading floor salesman
Software engineer
Therapist
Counsellor
Doctor
Nurse
Surgeon
Physiotherapist
Pharmacist
Aircraft engineer
Chef
Waitress
Teacher
Security desk worker
Air con engineer
Logistics manager
Heavy machinery operator
Lecturer
Dispatch operator
News desk operator
TV admin
Lab researcher
Academic

Shall I go on?

What you have done all of those jobs - that's impressive! You must be quite old to have done all that training, are you retired now as I don't understand how you do f know of the 20:20:20 rule?

You've listed two jobs that I have done or I have siblings doing, they don't look at a screen for 50 minutes and I'm certain they look out the window as one of them has an amazing home office in a landscaped garden to look at!

Teachers have to concentrate for a full lesson!

Equally, you are not staring at one person at the front of a room in any of those jobs. Most of them are dynamic jobs where you would be interacting with colleagues or you're being physically moving around, very different to staring with your line of sight at one person for 50 minutes?

🙄

I actually can't think of a sensible reply to this. Still, it's good to have a variety of people in the world.

Yes but they are usually moving for a bit of that and they are not required to stare at one pupil for 50 minutes. I did write, 'most' of those jobs, I didn't state 'all'.

If fiddling with an object helps him concentrate, he could just keep his hands out of the teachers sight line?

So you haven't done all of those jobs so how would you possibly know! So strange to get rude and personal, what is wrong with the world is your kind of bolshy, defensiveness and not tolerating other people's opinions it isn't just about 'kids today' which is just a lazy bias.

Trust me, teachers need to be on full alert the whole time, moving or otherwise.

However, this depiction of a lesson as 'pupils staring at one thing for 50 minutes' is bollocks.