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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's the education system timetable's fault, not my son's fault

198 replies

SamVussain · 24/01/2025 07:22

Parents evening last night.
Secondary school, year 8.
Every single subject teacher said exactly the same thing: "Sam loses focus half way or 3/4 way through a lesson, he works really well and he engages well and demonstrates good learning, but suddenly I see him staring out of the window for a few seconds and I have to say "Sam!" to get him back on to concentrating again!" Or "Sam applies himself then half way through the lesson loses focus and starts fiddling with his pen or rubber and I have to say "Sam! Concentrate!" and then he puts it down and starts concentrating again, but I shouldn't have to say it to him at all". Every one of them said "Intelligent boy, well behaved, polite, good knowledge levels, but loses focus at points during the lesson which he needs to stop doing, he needs to apply himself 100% throughout the lesson".
Lessons are either 50 minutes long or 100 minutes long.
By the time it got to the 4th subject teacher saying this, I started saying that there is scientific based evidence to prove that regular brain breaks are essential, that the brain needs to stop learning at regular intervals, take a brain break, then resume. From what I've read, time intervals vary, but some research suggests brain breaks are needed as often as every 20 minutes whilst studying. But this was dismissed by every teacher I said it to. I also said to one particular teacher that there is evidence to prove that 'fiddling' with something, moving the hand and fiddling with a small object, can really help some people to concentrate and apply themselves better. She said he sometimes fiddles with his rubber and that he needs to stop. I asked if it was disrupting any other pupils, or making a noise. She said no. I asked if it disrupted her. She said no, but that it meant to her that he wasn't focusing on the lesson if he was fiddling with his rubber. I asked if he fiddles with it all through the lesson, and she said "Oh no no no no no, not at all, no, just at some points for a short while". And I said "Well, that's alright then. Let him. It might be that it helps him focus". She then said if that was my opinion then I have to apply for "special permission from the SEN department to request for him to be allowed to fiddle."
DS is not diagnosed with any SEN. I'm very aware that innatentive ADHD could cause this. But equally, is it not just that my DS needs more regular brain breaks than what the school timetable allows for?
Why has my DS got to avoid occasionally fiddling with his rubber if it helps him to keep concentrating, and why has he got to avoid looking out of the window for 10 seconds if that helps him to give his brain a break before refocusing again at points during a 100 minute lesson?
I talked to DS about it afterwards, and he admitted that sometimes his brain starts feeling overloaded with information in the more difficult acadwmic lessons so he looks out of the window to relax his brain, then after a short time (10 seconds or so) he feels like he can refocus again and gets back on track. He attended with me, and he seemed to feel quite deflated that all the teachers of academic lessons said it. He said "Why don't they notice how much I am applying myself ".
Interestingly, none of the teachers of movement lessons said it - PE, DT, etc.
I'm feeling irritated this morning that every teacher of academic lessons said my DS needs to focus 100% throughout every lesson, yet the school timetable is not designed to allow regular brain breaks for children and instead expects them to study for long periods of time without any loss of concentration whatsoever.
I'm really interested to know other parents thoughts?

OP posts:
Holluschickie · 24/01/2025 15:07

Asia is going to eat us for lunch.

Goldenbear · 24/01/2025 15:14

noblegiraffe · 24/01/2025 15:04

Trust me, teachers need to be on full alert the whole time, moving or otherwise.

However, this depiction of a lesson as 'pupils staring at one thing for 50 minutes' is bollocks.

I've worked with schools in the past and have seen that is the case and I literally said not all of those jobs the PP listed.

If it is "bollocks", why is it what the OP's DS doing, looking out of the window, fiddling with something an issue then? Surely, it isn't an issue if it isn't a requirement to have line of sight at the teacher the whole time? There are teachers who have posted on this thread supporting the OP so what is the big deal?

The school system doesn't set them up for work as it isn't anything like work for a start you'd get sacked if you went around shouting and bellowing and swearing at your colleagues. I feel sorry for my youngest who is still at secondary school because whilst her worst offence is probably occasionally looking out the window, other teenagers are upending tables, doing all the above and seemingly there is something very, very wrong when that is not addressed. But if you are going to get to the bottom of that the black and white thinking has to go.

noblegiraffe · 24/01/2025 15:18

If it is "bollocks", why is it what the OP's DS doing, looking out of the window, fiddling with something an issue then? Surely, it isn't an issue if it isn't a requirement to have line of sight at the teacher the whole time?

Why are you assuming that he is fiddling with his rubber and staring out of the window when he should be listening to the teacher and not doing this when he should be cracking on with writing an essay or solving some quadratic equations? If it's in the latter part of the lesson, it's more likely that he's meant to be doing something rather than teacher input.

Goldenbear · 24/01/2025 15:21

Holluschickie · 24/01/2025 15:07

Asia is going to eat us for lunch.

How can you possibly garner this from reading a thread on MN, you know nothing about our backgrounds, where we work, what sector we work in, our relative success or not, how do you even define success as you have obviously come to that conclusion based upon some very basic credentials as to what equates to success!

Holluschickie · 24/01/2025 15:23

It's secondary school. A 43 minute lesson. Should be doable unless SN, in my opinion.

Goldenbear · 24/01/2025 15:24

Holluschickie · 24/01/2025 15:23

It's secondary school. A 43 minute lesson. Should be doable unless SN, in my opinion.

Tip top opinion there but I see you do not have the courage of your convictions to elaborate so probably have no clue whatsoever!

Wendolino · 24/01/2025 15:28

TidydeskTidymind · 24/01/2025 14:39

They really don't think that. They don't have time.

Oh yes they do 😂. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the "that parent" discussions.

Goldenbear · 24/01/2025 15:29

noblegiraffe · 24/01/2025 15:18

If it is "bollocks", why is it what the OP's DS doing, looking out of the window, fiddling with something an issue then? Surely, it isn't an issue if it isn't a requirement to have line of sight at the teacher the whole time?

Why are you assuming that he is fiddling with his rubber and staring out of the window when he should be listening to the teacher and not doing this when he should be cracking on with writing an essay or solving some quadratic equations? If it's in the latter part of the lesson, it's more likely that he's meant to be doing something rather than teacher input.

I'm just going on the OP which doesn't allude to what you are describing. The OP also states that he is intelligent, hard working so is it this massive issue. The OP is right about the 20 minute rule and you are encouraged not to stare at a screen where I work, where my DH works as an Architect, where my brother works- one of the jobs mentioned in PP lengthy career list and were many of my friends work in the finance sector, it is literally a health and safety poster placed everywhere, 20:20:20!

noblegiraffe · 24/01/2025 15:32

Goldenbear · 24/01/2025 15:29

I'm just going on the OP which doesn't allude to what you are describing. The OP also states that he is intelligent, hard working so is it this massive issue. The OP is right about the 20 minute rule and you are encouraged not to stare at a screen where I work, where my DH works as an Architect, where my brother works- one of the jobs mentioned in PP lengthy career list and were many of my friends work in the finance sector, it is literally a health and safety poster placed everywhere, 20:20:20!

Kids aren't staring at screens in silence for whole lessons. That's just not happening.

Holluschickie · 24/01/2025 15:32

Goldenbear · 24/01/2025 15:24

Tip top opinion there but I see you do not have the courage of your convictions to elaborate so probably have no clue whatsoever!

What is there to elaborate? A lot of other posters have said the same.
You seem very enthusiastic about the 20-20-20 rule. But I don't really think this is accepted practice in the workplace in 2025, where jobs are very hard to get and competition is insane.

TidydeskTidymind · 24/01/2025 15:50

Wendolino · 24/01/2025 15:28

Oh yes they do 😂. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the "that parent" discussions.

Oh ok. I was led to believe that nowadays teachers don't even have time to go for a pee, let alone hang around the staff room exchanging gossip about parents.

Wendolino · 24/01/2025 15:54

TidydeskTidymind · 24/01/2025 15:50

Oh ok. I was led to believe that nowadays teachers don't even have time to go for a pee, let alone hang around the staff room exchanging gossip about parents.

Edited

Sounds like you were seriously misled.

parietal · 24/01/2025 15:55

Here is a different take on the situation

  • your kid is basically great but the teachers feel they have to find something to criticize
  • the only thing they can criticize is the kid silently staring out of the window, so that is what they mention
  • but the kid's behaviour is not impacting his learning or the rest of the class, so just IGNORE IT.

I spent large chunks of my school and university career looking out of the window / doodling / reading novels under the desk and I still got solid grades all the way up to PhD. The attempts by teachers to control every aspect of kids behaviour is not really a good way to encourage learning.

DinosaurMunch · 24/01/2025 16:01

PokerFriedDips · 24/01/2025 08:44

It's not for 2 minutes. It's for the whole 2nd half of the lesson. If it were for 2 minutes the teachers would not be raising it as a problem.

For a few seconds according to the OP

Whatzzitz · 24/01/2025 16:10

It sounds like ADD rather than ADHD. Maybe worth taking to the SENCO and pointing out focus concerns throughout academic subjects.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 24/01/2025 16:14

If it is "bollocks", why is it what the OP's DS doing, looking out of the window, fiddling with something an issue then? Surely, it isn't an issue if it isn't a requirement to have line of sight at the teacher the whole time?

Why are you assuming that the OP's ds is only staring out of the window/fiddling while he's supposed to have his eyes on the teacher? He may be doing it when he's supposed to be doing other tasks.

I agree that an hour is a long time to sit and concentrate (depending on the format of the lesson). The alternative is to make the school day longer to include more breaks (not sure that would go down well). Or to reduce the amount of content we have to teach (I'd definitely be up for that).

pinkwaffles · 24/01/2025 16:20

passtherichteas · 24/01/2025 07:58

There is quite a difference between input and output. Taking in new information for 100 mins at a time is intense, even for adults. Especially multiple times a day. Working at your desk, where you can pause to think or pop to the water cooler for a few mins for a mini break, is entirely different.

Year 8 school classes are not a 100 minute lecture where they sit and listen to the teacher.

They are sectioned and structured to include various activities including listening and doing.

Goldenbear · 24/01/2025 16:22

Holluschickie · 24/01/2025 15:32

What is there to elaborate? A lot of other posters have said the same.
You seem very enthusiastic about the 20-20-20 rule. But I don't really think this is accepted practice in the workplace in 2025, where jobs are very hard to get and competition is insane.

Again, why are you telling me this, you literally know nothing about my wealth, my job, whether I employ people, how old I am. You seem to have convinced yourself that I'm totally oblivious to the world of work. Maybe it isn't like that where you work but it is where I work and many of my friends, my family work, all successful people, if you measure that on traditional measures of success. All of them look for certain conditions to work in, all of them headhunted for various senior posts.

Goldenbear · 24/01/2025 16:24

Goldenbear · 24/01/2025 16:22

Again, why are you telling me this, you literally know nothing about my wealth, my job, whether I employ people, how old I am. You seem to have convinced yourself that I'm totally oblivious to the world of work. Maybe it isn't like that where you work but it is where I work and many of my friends, my family work, all successful people, if you measure that on traditional measures of success. All of them look for certain conditions to work in, all of them headhunted for various senior posts.

Also, 'accepted practice in 2025', that's the whole point we know more and more about optimal conditions for working well and learning. Maybe your thinking of 2005!

Soontobe60 · 24/01/2025 16:27

Earwiggoearwiggoearwiggo · 24/01/2025 07:49

Our brains are absolutely not focused 24/7, what a load of nonsense.

I'm a teacher, your kid sounds fine. State school teachers get bollocked by Ofsted if kids are looking out the window, they're encouraged by SLT to see it as a mortal sin. I've taught many kids who ended up getting straight 8/9, A/ A* while also having the odd look out the window.

If a brain were switched off, you'd literally be dead!
There’s a world of difference between actively concentrating and passively sitting there, but each task requires the brain to be working. It’s basic biology.

Goldenbear · 24/01/2025 16:29

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 24/01/2025 16:14

If it is "bollocks", why is it what the OP's DS doing, looking out of the window, fiddling with something an issue then? Surely, it isn't an issue if it isn't a requirement to have line of sight at the teacher the whole time?

Why are you assuming that the OP's ds is only staring out of the window/fiddling while he's supposed to have his eyes on the teacher? He may be doing it when he's supposed to be doing other tasks.

I agree that an hour is a long time to sit and concentrate (depending on the format of the lesson). The alternative is to make the school day longer to include more breaks (not sure that would go down well). Or to reduce the amount of content we have to teach (I'd definitely be up for that).

So what if he is? If he is intelligent and academic and is mostly doing fine on that front, why does it matter if the teacher has to tell a 12 year old to get on with the task in hand. I don't see what the issue is, it is a literally a 1 second reminder to a kid to refocus.

Soontobe60 · 24/01/2025 16:29

Wendolino · 24/01/2025 15:54

Sounds like you were seriously misled.

Today I managed to go to the toilet whilst nipping to the staff room to make a drink and take back to my classroom at lunch time, where I then ate my sandwich whilst setting up for the afternoon. Standard day at our school.

Scaredtosayitoutloud · 24/01/2025 16:31

I would suggest following this up with the SEN department and GP. Our DD was given access arrangements but we were never told why. She's now had a dyslexia screening and it says probably moderately dyslexic....but it's too late to do anything more for GCSEs.

Please follow up any possible medical situations for your son's sake.

Wendolino · 24/01/2025 17:23

Soontobe60 · 24/01/2025 16:29

Today I managed to go to the toilet whilst nipping to the staff room to make a drink and take back to my classroom at lunch time, where I then ate my sandwich whilst setting up for the afternoon. Standard day at our school.

I'm surprised you found time to surf MN at 4.30pm then.

TidydeskTidymind · 24/01/2025 17:30

Goldenbear · 24/01/2025 16:29

So what if he is? If he is intelligent and academic and is mostly doing fine on that front, why does it matter if the teacher has to tell a 12 year old to get on with the task in hand. I don't see what the issue is, it is a literally a 1 second reminder to a kid to refocus.

I agree.
It's pretty standard teaching practice.