Do you believe the dads who say ‘she stopped me from seeing my kids for NO reason’?

[thecherryfox]

long story short, when I was pregnant I had to flee my abuser as he was making threats on my life. I had to seek help from multiple professions - all of which including the police told me to not allow my newborn to have contact with this dangerous individual.

My abuser went full force with his smear campaign against me, he told everyone I didn’t allow contact with our baby ‘for no reason’ and I was bitter among lots of awful horrible lies about me. He also started a go fund me called ‘daddy’s matter’ where he victimised himself and claimed he was a victim of alienation. During the relationship, he isolated me from my own family and friends so I had to rely on his family and friends. During his smear campaign, he ensured I lost those family and friends so I had no one.

it broke me watching these people believing I wasn’t letting him see his child because I was this horrible monster and no one questioned why I didn’t allow him. I’ve heard so many experiences from other victims of abuse where they have also experienced this and because we protect our children - our abusers get treated like they’re the victims. Everyone believing their lies helps abuse their victim further.

so I guess my question is, do you believe men when they say that their ex is ‘bitter’ and stopped them for no reason - or do you question why don’t let them. Because I can assure you, the parents who ARE ‘bitter’ are such a small percentage and the truth is that us parents have to do it to protect us and our children.

so I guess my question is, do you believe men when they say that their ex is ‘bitter’ and stopped them for no reason - or do you question why don’t let them.

Depends on the situation, the person, the relationship - that goes the same for whether I believe the woman's side of the story as well. In my experience, usually neither are telling the truth - it's somewhere in the middle.

Nope. All the men I know who said that have usually done nothing to try and see their child.

When I got together with my ex (I was 19, he was 33) I fully believed his tales of his 'psycho' ex and his kids being withheld from him.

4 kids later and guess who is the psycho ex who doesn't allow contact with his kids (even though 2 are adults and 2 are teens now).

I was stupid to believe it in the first place, I would never believe it again.

No. Never.

Absolutely not.

Generally not.

I have known it to actually happen once. The mum was an absolute terror. Absolutely nuts. I wasn't in a relationship with the Dad, but had the unenviable task of trying to support his attempts at mediation between him and his ex partner. She was full on bonkers and extremely difficult. Came down to wanting her new partner to be their sons dad, mainly because new partner had more money. Tried to fiddle DNA and everything. Gosh, that was a time. I'd never been so frustrated with work. I'll never forget out wildly unreasonable she was. The dad never did get to see his kid, so she won in the end.

But a lot of the time it's because dad hasn't bothered to try, even rejecting chances to see his kids, doesn't want to admit that he's a deadbeat to people, and so blames mum for lack of contact.

No.

They're not all lying/full of shit, but it's not something I would uncritically accept without more evidence.

In these instances I always wonder what the women's side of the story is.

But also, lets not pretend that some (and I emphasis, some) women weaponise the children and deny access for petty reasons.

I do think though that our opinions on this are formed by our own experiences and those of our friends and relatives.

No. And I don't believe it's 50/50 whether the woman or man is lying - it's nearly always the deadbeat, who is nearly always the man.

Anybody who has a baby with a man who doesn't see his previous child/ren needs her head testing, regardless of what sob story he's come up with.

I worked with a woman who did. She'd had an affair (not her first), moved in with the other man and simply didn't want to be bothered with having to organise stuff around when the DC were with her ex. In her words it was too much hassle to think about whether it was her weekend before committing to something fun. But she was extremely unpleasant as a work colleague too, very self centred and the sort who would always try and take credit for other people's achievements but blame others for her failures.

Nope
A guy at our hobby club was complaining how his wife had left him and fled to the other end of the country with the kids "for no reason"

We all said "oh god nightmare mate" but we were thinking, sure, a woman vanishes with her kids for no reason 🤨

No I don’t.
It’s code for I can’t be bothered to go to court or talk to my (old enough to decide for themselves legally so age 12+) kids.
The “I don’t know why” is also a red flag. The person doesn’t want to admit that there’s a reason because they would look bad, is too abusive to talk to or their ex has aired their grievance but they don’t agree with it so consider it a non-reason.

No, I never would. But, unfortunately, many people would, even friends who are your friends (not his) and should know better. I'm sorry you're going through this, OP. You did the right thing for your safety and the safety of your child.

I believe you and I am so sorry this happened to you but it does happen. I know a woman who tried to poison her children against her exH. The ex finally took her to court where, without hesitation, the judge allowed my friend to see his children. There was enough evidence that he saw through her lies, thankfully. The children both moved out of home as soon as they were young adults. The eldest had been working and saving everything he earned so that he could get a mortgage in his early 20's; that is how desperate he was to escape his mother. Both children have no contact with their mother at all and haven't done so for years but see the father all the time (youngest one lives with him).

I know the guy but there was always a seed of doubt in my mind, you can't help it because no-one can know what has gone on behind closed doors. She carried out a very effective smear campaign against him. So I would always err on the side of caution. And I know this person well and could not for a minute think that he was capable of the things she was accusing him. But what her children have said confirms that it was she that was abusive, sadly.

IMO it’s not that black and white.

I certainly wonder why the man doesn’t see his kids, and if he doesn’t make any attempt to see them by going to court etc then I think it’s fairly obvious that it’s not a case of psycho ex preventing it.

But unfortunately I think it’s a bit naive to say that the number of women who prevent their ex’s seeing the kids without good reason is small, because IME it isn’t as small as we’d like to hope.

I know two women who have done this.

Friend’s dp’s ex stopped him seeing the kids when they split, he went to court numerous times, and numerous times she broke the court order. She made it very clear that she just didn’t want him seeing them. They’re all adults now and are all NC with her.

My cousin and his ex split, and equally, she prevented him from having contact with the DC. In the beginning his parents gave her a lot of support, she relied on them heavily for babysitting and help, because at the time they were disgusted with him for leaving her. But as time went on they rebuilt their relationship with him, by virtue of him being their son, and as soon as that happened she cut off contact with the kids from them as well.

And again, it wasn’t because of abuse or anything like that, she just didn’t think he deserved to see his kids.

And when his parents started to see him again she actively told the kids that they couldn’t have a relationship with them any more because they were friends with their dad.

I do however also know men who have put out the story that the wife doesn’t let them see the kids, and that a court battle would just have been too difficult and they wouldn’t want to put the kids through it, and for those men I certainly wouldn’t think they were on the level.

I'm afraid that I knew a woman who absolutely did that. And she was open and proud of it. In fact she even told us that if her tactics so far didn't work, she was going to say that he'd sexually abused their children.

She was a temp at our work for a few days, and though this was a decade or so ago, the three of us that she told this to, still feel a huge sense of guilt that we should have done something about what she told us and that maybe there's a father out there who doesn't see his kids or has even been the victim of the worst of false accusations.

When I see women always being believed in Mumsnet, and any man who comes here for help, being automatically disbelieved, I hate it, and that awful sense of guilt surfaces again.

Depends on how well I know them. My cousin now has full custody of his son, but his ex who has schizophrenia fled with him, didn't tell him where she'd gone, and stopped all access. I believed my cousin, and social services vetted his parenting and considered him acceptable.

Not all women are saintly.

No, I would never ever believe it. Any man with a genuinely vindictive ex can simply go to court for access. If the court denies access then you know that more is going on.

Same with all these men who have "psycho" and "narcissistic" exes. Oh do you pal, poor little you.

I would believe a man who said his ex threatens to withhold access, if he was taking active steps to go to court. I also believe that some women try and turn the kids against the dad. But I think that these women are the minority, and that it's still the dad's responsibility to counteract it by building his own good relationship with his kids.

It's complicated.

Women do not leave their home and take their children away 'for no reason'. And it can take many attempts at gearing up the courage.

Abusive men frequently see partners and children as things. Property. To be isolated, owned and controlled. A woman who leaves is therefore depriving him of property (herself) - and taking the children? = More of his stuff nicked. An aggrieved sense that they are the victim may stem from that.

Some with zero emotional intelligence may be genuinely unable to see why she was so unhappy with his intolerable behaviour.

Some know perfectly well and resort to 'I don't know why ... Crazy ex ...' narratives because it's in their interests and manipulative nature to control others' beliefs.

On the other hand, there are vengeful and manipulative women out there who will use the children. EG our acquaintance who cheated on his then wife years ago and had a child with the OW - when wife found out, she kicked him out then said if you marry her you will never see our children again.

So what's the solution.

Despite their best isolating efforts, keep your family and friends close even if it has to be in secret.

Make sure they know what is happening if all turns sour.

Keep evidence safely. Journals, diaries, texts, emails, voice messages, police reports, medical reports. Keep it. Have copies in a safe place.

Take practical advice - Women's Aid, CAB, solicitor. Know your rights.

Know where the money is and how it works.

I think it very much depends on the situation. We are led to believe that every Mother can't possibly be dreadful, simply because she's female and therefore all Dad's must be to blame, because they're male. Yes, terrible Mother's do exist, in the same way there are terrible Dad's. Being female doesn't automatically make a woman a good Mum or up for the Mother of the Year award. Relationship's end, and like the saying goes 'there are two sides to each story' - the truth is normally in the middle. When there's abuse it's different, a man is never going to admit that to friends/family, he will always tell a story to fit his narrative, and by doing so it punishes his ex-partner for seeking a way out of the relationship, and gives him a sense of control over the situation and his ex.

There is a MNetter who wrote on here about her ex taking her kids and trying to withhold access. She went to court. The process was long and she had an hour a week contact with her DC in the meantime. She would drive to her ex's and he regularly would be out or wouldn't open the door. She would sit on his porch and call the police, every single time. Eventually she won regular access back (either shared or full custody, I can't remember). Everytime a man tells me his ex won't let him see his kids I think about that woman sitting on a front step calling the police for months, just for one single hour with her children. That's what it looks like to have an ex stopping you from seeing your kids, and those are the lengths that a parent goes to. A man who hasn't even bothered going to court? Not a fucking chance.

In general I would be sceptical but would keep an open mind.
We have to be careful not to project our own experiences onto other people.
I would say that in many cases they either haven't made much effort or the mother is protecting the children. There are however some women who use their children and are capable of lying.

I've only known 1 occasion where the mother stopped contact because she didn't like that dad had a new partner. Up to that point they'd successfully co parented.
This really was a no reason example. There was no reason dad shouldn't have kept contact.

Nope.

Ditto 'my partners ex is a psycho/controlling'

Could happen, sure.

But half a dozen a day claim this on mumsnet, and I doubt the vast majority.

I do sometimes, only as I have seen it happen for someone I know, where the mum kept moving the goal posts and making it as difficult as possible for the dad to see the child. She would just take the child out so dad couldn't pick him up at the agreed time, and would say he wasn't able to see him as it's upsetting for the child etc.

Dad didn't go to court though which he should have, but he didn't have money and the whole thing felt insurmountable.

I think for some people it's massively overwhelming and they just give up when someone makes it so difficult and painful. He hopes that his child will come and find him when he's older, but I doubt he will.