Do you believe the dads who say ‘she stopped me from seeing my kids for NO reason’?

[thecherryfox]

long story short, when I was pregnant I had to flee my abuser as he was making threats on my life. I had to seek help from multiple professions - all of which including the police told me to not allow my newborn to have contact with this dangerous individual.

My abuser went full force with his smear campaign against me, he told everyone I didn’t allow contact with our baby ‘for no reason’ and I was bitter among lots of awful horrible lies about me. He also started a go fund me called ‘daddy’s matter’ where he victimised himself and claimed he was a victim of alienation. During the relationship, he isolated me from my own family and friends so I had to rely on his family and friends. During his smear campaign, he ensured I lost those family and friends so I had no one.

it broke me watching these people believing I wasn’t letting him see his child because I was this horrible monster and no one questioned why I didn’t allow him. I’ve heard so many experiences from other victims of abuse where they have also experienced this and because we protect our children - our abusers get treated like they’re the victims. Everyone believing their lies helps abuse their victim further.

so I guess my question is, do you believe men when they say that their ex is ‘bitter’ and stopped them for no reason - or do you question why don’t let them. Because I can assure you, the parents who ARE ‘bitter’ are such a small percentage and the truth is that us parents have to do it to protect us and our children.

Statistically there are more court orders allowing/deciding on access than there are blocking it yes.

that doesn’t mean they favour men, it means they favour allowing access by the party that has gone to court requesting it, because that is in the best interests of the child.

it’s disingenuous to claim that’s evidence of men being favoured

I was on the thread about young girls having much older boyfriends. I was one of those girls. Had 3 kids with him before he pissed off and left. He didn't see the children for 7 years after leaving despite having tabs on us and always knowing where we lived. I chased him through CMS but he dodged and never held down a job whilst my claim was open.
My husband adopted the children and my ex had his rights totally removed. He made the court case difficult until the very end when he just shrugged and let it go.

The point of that story is that sadly, I believed him when I met him about the psycho mother of his 2 year old son and how she'd stopped him from seeing him for no reason.

He was the fucking reason.

Everything I went through, being (i think) groomed by him and then abused by him for years was exactly what his ex had gone through as well. I was just too naive to see it at first and by the time I realised I was completely stuck in that life.

He moved on and got with someone who already had children, taking them on as his own whilst having no contact with the first 4. Then they had a child together. I sometimes wonder if his partner thinks I'm the psycho ex?!

I have no doubt that some women really do do everything they can to prevent access for absolutely no reason. It would be silly to suggest that no woman would ever do this - that's just not realistic.

But that doesn't mean that if someone said it to me I'd believe them.

It depends. Some parents will stop their children having contact with the other parent, just because they can.
One of DHs best friend spent 3 years fighting to see his kids. His ex was angry because he wanted a divorce (noone else involved) and used the kids as weapons. he is supposed to have 50/50 now but she still messes him round and says she doesn't want the children to go or claims they're ill, so I absolutely believe it does happen. I also believe a lot of men lie about it as they want to be seen as a victim not a shit dad.

Very much depends.

I have a male friend who has 2 children with 2 different women. He is a very active and engaged father to the eldest, has maintained a cordial relationship with her mother. I've seen him with said child (who is now an adult) and the mother on many occasions.

He has no contact with his youngest. There definitely appears to be no reason for this. He has been to court for access, he's attended mediation. I've witnessed some of his phone calls and text messages to the mother (he lived with me for a short time) and can see no reason why she doesn't allow him access. He's genuinely sad about it, talks about his son often, writes him letters and sends Christmas and birthday presents, no idea if he receives them. He ran out of money to fight in the courts a few years ago, but continued to appeal to the mother. He's recently started a court battle again. It's very sad.

I definitely believe him.

I have other male acquaintances that I'm not sure I believe as much.

There's only one version of the truth in my case. Factual with proof.

And I do know a couple of female friends who are so hurt by the separation that they don't feel dad 'deserves' to see their kids so has stopped it. Definitely putting their own feelings over their children.

You've never been a woman who's been in an abusive relationship then if you think that it can't ever be clear cut in at least some cases ( probably most).

to everyone saying ‘I know a woman who weaponised her children’ because so and so said so - this is the entire point. Why are you believing one side of the story when you don’t know if there’s another truth. I listened to my ex tell me how horrible and toxic his exes were to him and I believed him… until I was on the other side of it where I became that horrible toxic ex that he told to other people. Where the truth was, it was obvious he was the problem or abusive in those relationships considering the torture and abuse I endured at the hands of him.

you don’t know what goes on, yet blindly supporting one person’s ‘truth’ because you believe them or trust them. Yet remember abusers can be the person laying next to you, your father, your neighbour next door, your co worker, the shop worker you say hello to every morning. My point is that you think you trust what people tell you, when they may not be the person they seem.

Each case on it's merits!

to everyone saying ‘I know a woman who weaponised her children’ because so and so said so - this is the entire point. Why are you believing one side of the story when you don’t know if there’s another truth.

Some of us have witnessed it firsthand.

Not if he hasn't been to court to get access, no.

I am also aware that my ex at one point was telling his family that I was stopping him seeing the children, when he actually was seeing them. It was just that I wasn't willing to change my plans at very short notice to accommodate his ever changing work pattern. I insisted he followed a routine and put plans in place to do so - something that he was capable of doing, it just wasn't as convenient for him.

I'm not going to quote any posts to try to avoid singling out or causing animosity to a particular poster(s) who have suffered trauma and abuse.

But your experience is just that. The fact that you've suffered abusive manipulative men, whilst clearly traumatic and horrendous, is not a convincing argument that alienation of fathers for no good reason other than vindictiveness never occurs.

Access isn't always in the best interests of the child. Absuive men are believed and evidence of abuse is often ignored. Lots of DC have been abused and murdered by their fathers at court ordered contact. Often the woman is there to protect the DC, but she can't in most cases.

depends on the situation

Some i do, some i don't, i have been the victim of DA and had to keep kids from Ex for a brief period.

I've also witnessed my brother be a victim of DA, and his ex try to remove the kids from him and the country and him have to fight tooth and nail against his abuser to maintain contact, all the while she was painting him as dangerous/crazy.. he wasn't btw, never has been.

Its a situation that shouldnt' be judged without all the facts.

I would think the man is lying until proven otherwise, yes.

If my children were taken from me there is nothing I wouldn't do or sell to see them. Literally nothing. I would expect the same from any parent and if they failed to do this, I would judge them heavily.

I am always very sceptical. Particularly if he hasn't gone to court to try to see his children.

How long is a piece of string?

Every situation is different.

There are some men who are given every opportunity to see their children and they don’t bother.

There are some women who make life difficult for good fathers who are desperate to see their children.

And there’s countless other different situations in between.

I have witnessed first hand my partner be denied access to his child for no reason.

He pays for his child, has been a constant in their life and yet when his Ex feels like it she’ll use every excuse under the sun to cancel his rightful custody time.

Years ago I had an Australian man as a next door neighbour. His British ex had walked out on him with their two children the day she qualified for Australian citizenship, brought them to England without even telling him, and then dumped them on her parents (whom he'd never met) before disappearing back to Oz. It took him 18 months to track them down and once he did he jacked in his job in Sydney to move to England to be with them.

When she found out she went apeshit and tried to move them again, and frustrated his access at every turn. Her own parents refused to humour her and eventually disowned her. The boys are in their late twenties now, have a wonderful relationship with Dad and their mother's parents, none at all with her.

I have several court appearances as a witness in all of this. So yeah, when a man says stuff like this, funnily enough I am capable of believing them.

I believe it happens because I know women who have done it. Every single one of them believes that children belong to the mother and so it is them who decides who gets to see the children. The ones who are eventually forced to hand their children over for contact still try to control what the father does with them ("They are not allowed to meet your girlfriend.", "You are not allowed to leave them with your mother.", "Do not give them sweets.")

But, in saying that, I wouldn't believe it from a man who just sits back and accepts not seeing his children. That sounds like an attempt to justify laziness and not caring.

I have no respect for women who get into relationships with men who don't have contact with their children, they're telling you everything you need to know about them.

And it should go without saying I have zero respect for those men too, but will add it for good measure.

No, never. Because I’ve never met a woman who doesn’t welcome help and support from another loving family member.
Even where abuse isn’t an issue the dads have usually opted out of any parenting and expect mum to arrange the contact to suit them.

To be fair some of us have seen, witnessed and experienced it first hand. Unfortunately there’s no blanket answer here, some men are shit dads, some women are awful and weaponise, sometimes there’s a genuine innocent party on one side and sometimes the parents are as bad as each other. People shouldn’t let their own biases or experiences shape their opinion of everyone and thing in a similar situation. My only experience is of a mum who alienated a dad however I understand this isn’t the case all the time, the same way it’s not always the case that the dad is just a shit dad (I find it strange some people have said they’d never believe contact can stop for no reason when there’s people have experienced to the contrary) but unfortunately it’s just case by case

@Billydavey

On the contrary it's absolutely disingenuous to claim there isn't evidence of men being favoured.

Choudry evidenced deep seated discrimination against women and a clear gender gap in the family court system. The recent UN report found gender bias against women in the court system to be deeply entrenched.

Denial is a river in Egypt and all that.

HRTFT but it's definitely a flag that needs exploring. My DB'S ex wife was off the scale in her behaviour post separation. He left her after physically catching her having an affair in their marital bed. Their DS was an infant at the time.
I could write a book. She didn't want their DS but wouldn't let DB have custody or visitation. She'd smash his windows, vandalise his car and attack anyone connected. This was a long time ago now.
She came up with the solution that my parents could have DS, like he was an item to be given away. DP raised DC from being two years old (my youngest bio DB was only four years older), but she wouldn't relinquish custody on paper. If she got a sniff DB was seeing him she'd threaten to remove him.
It's all very complicated and if I wasn't witness to it all I'd think how can DB be a decent person when his DC is being raised by his GPs.
After consulting solicitors my parents were advised that if they waited until he was 12 years old the courts would take into account where he wanted to live. For ten years they kept calendars and diaries. The bio DM saw him perhaps once/twice a year, but she still received everything like child benefit, CM, etc. It was worth it to keep the child safe.
On DC's twelfth Birthday my parents began proceedings and were awarded full custody. The bio him never bothered to attend. DB had more of a brotherly role in his life but took him on holiday, spent whatever was needed, etc.
Someone here might pick holes in what I'm saying on minute details but DB and my parents did what they thought was best to keep DC safe at the time.
Not all DMs are the angels MN wants us to believe. This woman went on to have another DS who she placed into care. It's over thirty years ago now and she's still abusive to our family and has a completely different narrative of events. I was there. I think cases like this are the exception to the rule but not all DFs are deadbeats and some DMs are maniacs.