Do you believe the dads who say ‘she stopped me from seeing my kids for NO reason’?

[thecherryfox]

long story short, when I was pregnant I had to flee my abuser as he was making threats on my life. I had to seek help from multiple professions - all of which including the police told me to not allow my newborn to have contact with this dangerous individual.

My abuser went full force with his smear campaign against me, he told everyone I didn’t allow contact with our baby ‘for no reason’ and I was bitter among lots of awful horrible lies about me. He also started a go fund me called ‘daddy’s matter’ where he victimised himself and claimed he was a victim of alienation. During the relationship, he isolated me from my own family and friends so I had to rely on his family and friends. During his smear campaign, he ensured I lost those family and friends so I had no one.

it broke me watching these people believing I wasn’t letting him see his child because I was this horrible monster and no one questioned why I didn’t allow him. I’ve heard so many experiences from other victims of abuse where they have also experienced this and because we protect our children - our abusers get treated like they’re the victims. Everyone believing their lies helps abuse their victim further.

so I guess my question is, do you believe men when they say that their ex is ‘bitter’ and stopped them for no reason - or do you question why don’t let them. Because I can assure you, the parents who ARE ‘bitter’ are such a small percentage and the truth is that us parents have to do it to protect us and our children.

Depends. I have 2 step children who were heavily involved in our lives until me and my husband got married and his ex girlfriend (their mum) started withdrawing contact. We went to court and got a court order to ensure contact remained and she continued to withdraw it anyway: not letting the children come out of the house when we arrive, not being there when we arrive. We went back to court and she had a litany of excuses. When I got pregnant the first time, she ramped it up and now I’m pregnant again and we don’t see the children anymore. She cried wolf and got legal authorities involved (all been resolved) but it’s put us in an awful situation now. So I think it really depends on the circumstances. Had this have all happened before I met my husband I would’ve said he was talking shit to be honest but I’ve seen it with my own eyes. I know it’s probably the exception, not the rule but I’ve witnessed the scary lengths women can and do go to get fathers out of the children’s lives then complain they’re on their own and act the martyr. Again I know know this is more rare than dad’s just not bothering before anyone comes at me and notes how rare our case is in comparison.

sorry edited to add this was for no reason other than she didn’t want him involved anymore now he’s married and has two kids with me

Sadly, I have experience of instances where the father has been the shit parent, and others where the mother has been the shit parent. A couple I knew when our children were little split up. She had an affair, he found out so wanted a divorce. She absolutely made his life hell and at the same time screwed up her children. She didnt want him to have any access to his children at all and did everything she could to prevent it. Parental alienation is a real thing.

I've known it happen (from knowing the ex-wife) a grand total of once.

But I've known a LOT more cases where the ex-husband was actually an abusive POS.

No, I don’t believe them. There will be exceptions but they are vanishingly rare.

There are often theads on here written by women choosing to date scum, they parrot whatever drivel the current boyfriend has spouted.
When it's pointed out that the barest of minimums would be the man getting a court order, they write that he 'can't afford it/doesn't want to rile the psycho ex' etc. (Schroedingers ex-who is both 'mental' but also fine to discard his kids to live with her full time)

People so stupid really shouldn't be dating.

I know a woman who does something like this, arrange to meet at library, dad travels 25 miles by 2 buses, gets there, she messages, oh meet at shopping centre 6 miles in another direction, he gets on bus again bus running late due to road works, gets there..oh your late, not seeing them...
She can be late by up to 3 hrs, but if his bus runs late, she drives off after 2 mins. Court orders ignored. He is low waged, unable to drive for health reasons even if he could afford a car. It's not a case of pay £200+ and all is hunkydory like some make it out to be.

Some men can be arseholes, so can some women. I would be wary but open-minded.

Any man who doesn't see his kids should be a major red flag imo.

The men who genuinely can never see there kids either don't try very hard at best or at worse have a court order preventing it. The bar to be refused access to your kids is very high

I don’t believe it’s all men but the good ones are the exceptions. Most single mothers I’ve met do all in their power to ensure their children have a relationship with their fathers.

I don’t think it’s totally black and white.
I know a few women who have really weaponised their children in the wake of a relationship breakdown.

In the wake of my own relationship ending I wish I had a pound for every time one of my female friends would advise me to stop my DC seeing their father because he was being difficult towards me.
To note, there are aspects of his parenting that frustrate me but he does love our DC and I know DC is always safe with him and that have a good relationship. He’s just very, very difficult with me at times.

I think a lot of women unfortunately use their own feelings as a reason to weaponise children and lose sight of what is in the child’s best interest.
But I also know a fair few fathers that just can’t be bothered to step up, so blame their lack of involvement in their children’s lives on their “mental ex”.

IME there are way more men who can't be arsed, act all 'woe is me' and (despite the stupid threats of "I'll make sure I get full custody") accept not seeing their own children, or have very, very little contact, than decent ones.

They bleat on about wanting to see more of their children, yet when it doesn't suit them the children slip down their list of priorities quite easily.

This is probably why the fathers who are doing exactly what they should are often lauded as great beings.

Does it happen? Probably. But commonly? Absolutely not. Many of these men who claim they’re ’denied access’ are either abusive or lazy. My own children would probably see their father far far less if I wasn’t the one taking them to his, picking them up and not making any expectations when they’re there than meeting their most basic needs (whilst getting 1/3 of what CMS would have him pay). Men like this believe they have a right to their children by ‘ownership’ not through actual want of parenting, or at least that’s my experience. And it doesn’t mean they don’t genuinely love their children, but that’s simply not enough when it comes to actual parenting. It’s very easy to see one parent (usually the mother) as the ‘bad guy who’s alienated the other parent’, but hard choices have to be made when you separate love and meeting needs.

Also it depends on whose perspective it’s from. My grandma and grandad split before I was born and she would maintain to this day that she never stopped my grandad seeing their children but my mum and her siblings have all said that’s categorically not true and that, yes he was a shit dad anyway to be fair, but she actively weaponised them and stopped the relationship between the children and my granddad progressing post their break up

Yes, my DH. This was before the days of 50/50 PR.

Hours of mediation, thousands on solicitors and court cases but ultimately the court couldn't/wouldn't jail her for breaching contact orders.

Now adults, the kids have realised how toxic their mother is and are now NC with her and building a relationship with DH. She told them horrendous lies, e.g they wanted to contact their Dad but she told them we had moved and she didn't know where we were, we hadn't moved! This all stemmed from her having an affair and DH refusing to take her back once she got bored. She now has the life of a bitter and twisted old spinster.

No.

I'm happy to be proved wrong but my starting point is not to believe him.

I’m sceptical but it has happened to my brother in law. He pursued it through the courts for years but in the end was going into lots of debt for legal fees so had to stop as it wasn’t fair on his other children. Every time he got access she would claim something new and it would start all over again

Its like never believe a man who says all his ex girlfriends are crazy/bitches.

You wonder what he did.

I understand that there will be men out their who will have been unfairly cut off from their children after a break up but given that they are so few and far between, I start from the position that they are probably lying and work from there.

Honestly, it totally depends on the situation and the people involved.

Some women (like you) clearly have very, very good reasons for not wanting their kids to see their fathers.

However, there certainly are some women who do go to great lengths to prevent fathers from seeing their children without a good reason, out of anger or spite or whatever.

Not every man who says their ex was a psycho is going to be telling the truth, clearly. But some are - women aren't all perfect, stable, non-abusive people while men are all abusive liars.

Some men are complete monsters. Some women are also complete monsters. I've witnessed and experienced both of those things in my life.

No I don't. Obviously a woman could withhold contact very temporarily. But if a man is safe to be around a child, family court will award 50/50 when a child is old enough if that is what the Dad wants. Lots of abusive men have 50/50 as awarded through the family court. A man that doesn't see his DC is either too lazy to go to court and therefore a neglectful parent or for a court to decide no contact the court have deemed the man poses a significant danger to the child.

My default mode would be no. It would raise a red flag for possible abuse, or a deadbeat dad, because those 2 options are far more likely than a woman alienating her child from a loving and responsible father for no reason.
I do realise that parental alienation does exist but would need to see proof of this happening rather than just accepting a "She's bitter and unhinged, she keeps the kids away from me for no reason,...." narrative.

There's a thread running currently where a man attacked his newborn infant, got jailed for it, and horrifically is allowed access to his victim.

That's how low the bar is.

There's no excuse for choosing to not parent your kid, they should just openly admit they are shit.

Only judges and even more well informed, family mediators truly know the reality being in a position to hear both sides to one story.

Would you also wonder what a woman did to deserve having a succession of abusive partners, though? I'm guessing probably not. We generally believe a woman who says that and feel sorry for her and assume that she's had abusive partners because she's vulnerable or had an abusive childhood or struggles with boundaries and spotting red flags. We don't generally say 'What she did to provoke them all?'. But people do tend to say that about men.

I'm a survivor of domestic violence myself and I know other women who have had similar experiences. However, I've also met male victims of domestic violence and coercive control, including two I'm very close to, and as a result I'm wary of the narrative that any man who says they've had abusive partners must invariably be lying and we should start from the point of disbelief.

No. There's always a 'psycho ex' and yet this man who got it so wrong last time has picked the perfectly mentally stable you this time. I eye roll whenever I hear about difficult exes. I don't deny they exist, but I have no doubt it is nearly always exaggerated to benefit the man. How many women genuinely don't want the support of a co parent unless there are very good reasons you wouldn't want him involved?

So despite people posting that they have experienced this, or seen it first hand, some people still claim that it never happens and they would immediately assume any man saying this is lying. Wow

no one is saying it’s as common as men not seeing their kids, it isn’t. But it does happen.

and those saying “if he hasn’t been to court and won it must be his fault” don’t appreciate what the court system is like, and the very limited sections available (or appetite to use them) when a mother just ignores the court.