DD's friend is now her girlfriend and I don't know if rules should change.

[BlueSilverCats]

DD is 13 and y8. She's been friends with this girl(lovely ,decent kid, no concerns there).since y7, had plenty of playdates, meet ups, sleepovers etc. They started "dating " in October. I put that in inverted commas as nothing much seems to have changed. Their chats are still mostly about their interests, school stuff , silly stuff nothing heavy or too relationshipy. Apparently they do hold hands at times.

She's been invited for a sleepover next weekend and it gave me pause. If it was a boyfriend it would be an absolutely not. However it also feels wrong to stop it when it was always ok before, but I'm still uncomfortable, probably on principle.

I'm veering towards keeping things as normal . Is that the best way to deal with this? Should rules change now?

I keep an eye on her phone and messages, yes. While I don't read word for word , I browse enough to have a vague idea about what the conversations are about.

This is a hard line for me and a condition of her having a phone and won't change for at least a few more years.

I was in this position when I was 15 and my Mum thought we were just "best friends". It was bloody great 😊

Having a boyfriend/girlfriend in your bedroom all night, even without anything sexual, can feel intense/intimate. It can make the relationship feel more serious. and at 13, they’re not ready for that.

why do you think it's "intense" if the most they have done is hold hands?
sounds quite low key for a 13 year old relationship to me. There were girls in my school sleeping with their (older) boyfriends at that age.

tbh OP given the way you've discussed how open you are with your daughter, and that she seems to be very upfront with you, I'd allow it if it comes up again. Particularly as you've said it would be fine if she hadn't told you they were dating - surely otherwise it will just encourage her to fib next time.

Open communication and knowing she can tell her parents anything will keep her safer long term as she gets older and has more freedom and choice, than refusing one sleepover with a fellow 13 year old. I'd also reiterate that if she feels uncomfortable at all she can text you and you will come pick her up with a pre-arranged excuse (feel ill/family member in hospital?)

Well my options are :

1.Stop them being friends period , which I can only control outside of school hours.

Or

1. They can be friends (and possibly cool off playdates/sleepovers as an added extra) but not call each other GF which is rather pointless.

DD is likely to toe the line, but just as likely so start lying/hiding things which I definitely don't want and could make her even more vulnerable.

But why though? Would you also eves drop on in-person conversations between her and her close friends?

I keep an eye on large group chats as some can get out of hand and I also restrict some SM apps but reading private messages between friends that I know and like is a step too far in my opinion.

Let us not normalise the abnormal, shall we? Children should be children!!!!!

Really sorry to hear that
.and my parents were out of the picture.so I only had my fil to worry about in that respect and he was an upstanding guy .
But they didn't even stay with sil in law and bil for that reason

My rule would be no sleepovers with anyone she's in a relationship with.

I agree with this. Nothing you've said would make me think they're having sex.

I'm also surprised people think 13 is too young for dating. Surely your DC will just go behind your back if you try to impose such limits?

I had a BF at 13, it was all pretty innocent. I know not all 13 year year olds are innocent, but the OP's DD has confided in her, and given her no indication that she's having sex or thinking about having sex.

If she's punished for that by simply having her sleepovers cancelled then it'll break the trust.

In this situation I think I'd talk to my DD about her relationship, about relationships in general and about pressures to have sex, and listen to her.

I think I might take their relationship on face value for now, but (assuming she's the eldest sibling) say in general, 14 is too old to be sleeping in the same room and from then on, all sleep overs (i.e. with all friends) would need to be in separate rooms, so that doesn't punish her by cutting off sleepovers instantly but hopefully protects her as she matures - although I'm just thinking out loud here - the solution would partly depend on what DD said in our conversations.

It's a real balance isn't it? I emphasised to my DD that being a teenager involved them growing up and developing their own ideas and life while I'd be putting in place "rules" to help them do it safely. That's we'd disagree and fall out at times but what mattered was them knowing that they were loved unconditionally and that my job was to keep her safe while this happened. We'd work out the challenges together.

And we talked and disagreed sometimes but in terms of keeping her safe, it was my "rules".

Completely agree with this.

There is nothing to suggest this relationship is intense.

Keep communications open.

My DD told me when she had her first kiss, told me when she really liked a boy, she basically tells me everything. She does this because my reactions are proportionate.

I’d say it’s astonishingly less likely by both another girl and a long-term friend, yes. With a risk being significantly less, I would therefore treat the situation with differences.

From my own childhood, and from teaching, it's not unusual at all for children to be "asking each other out" at 11 or even much younger.

At 9, we had "boyfriends", "girlfriends"..."fiancees" even but it was all a silly game and not at all serious. The occasional hand-hold and peck on the cheek. "Relationships" would be over within about 3-6 weeks and there would be some silly drama and that would be that.

BUT parents and teachers at the time were very firm and clear that these were not real relationships and discouraged it. They certainly didn't enable dates.

Was I "asked out" at 11-14? Sure. But, thankfully, my parents were very clear about the fact that they didn't want me entering into romantic relationships until I was older. I was told that my answer could only be,
"My parents are strict and I am not allowed to date until I'm 15."

And that was 15, with clear communication and boundaries, having met the boy with the clear implication that sex was not permitted and "dating" could only happen under curfews and supervision. My parents were very open that they would prefer I didn't have sex at all until I was in 6th Form. I thought they were nuts at the time but I understood that they might feel a bit disappointed in me if I went against their wishes. Mixed sleepovers (as I'm straight) were not allowed past junior school. Bed sharing with either sex was not allowed past the toddler/KS1 stage (due to a cousin being SA at a very young age by another child of the same sex).

Did I rage and rebel against all of these rules from my "un-cool" parents? Did I go off the rails and have wild sex with everything in sight and cut off communication with my parents?!

No.

I had the odd kiss or awkward fumble during a poorly supervised party. I had lots of daft irrational crushes that changed from month to month.

I got to watch all the stupid "dating drama", teen pregnancy scares (or actually just teen pregnancy, abortions, dropping out of school to have a kid), sexual trauma when something happened that they didn't want or understand, trips to the the STI clinic or to the MAP, genuine confusion over why two 13/14 year olds couldn't make a "relationship" work and thought...

Thank fuck I'm not allowed to date!

I was asked out by my best friend at 15 towards the end of the school year and that was an awful, traumatic disaster and bad enough to go through at that age. It was the first time I'd been allowed to date and even that was too early. He did try to pressure me into sex. Because he wanted to figure out if he was gay. I wasn't ready and ended up losing my best friend and entire friendship circle in the process.

6 months later I was ready to date a boy I really liked properly but I still wasn't ready for sex and all that entailed until I was coming to the end of Lower 6th.

At 13, I absolutely would have been led into activity I didn't want and, though mature, I wouldn't have had the confidence or impulse control to make sound, safe decisions. I was a people pleaser and a hormonal mess! I needed the maturity, control and self awareness that naturally came with the older teen years. And when I did have sex, it was because I was in love and in a long term committed relationship. By taking young dating off the cards, my parents absolutely did the right thing for me. I'm hugely grateful. And I thrived academically and had a world of hobbies and interests that didn't revolve around dating and boys. It was absolutely the best decision they made for me.

But now, many parents take 11+ children wanting to "date" very seriously and actively enable it and buy into the false reality that very young children are capable of committed romantic relationships. And not only that, but that it's in their best interests and being a good parent to allow and facilitate it.

Thank you for saying this.

I hate the attitude to underage teens having sex on MN. “You can’t stop them. Better they have sex under your roof than in a park. I was at it like rabbits when I was 15” etc etc.

No way would I be supportive of my child having a sexual relationship at 13 (or 14, or 15, or 16 for that matter). Like you say, it’s not just sex but the angst and responsibility that comes along with it.

I think some people are really in danger of minimising how much teenage girls can socially and emotionally pressurise each other and be pressurised here.

even though they had sleep overs before doesn’t mean anything. Their relationship dynamic has changed so you can change the rules. 13 is far too young for anyone to be having sleepover with a bf/gf.
what if she says in 6months she would like a bf instead, what would you say to a sleepover with him?

Yr 7s ‘dating’ is completely commonplace. Holding hands, slow dancing at discos etc. Normal and usually a flash in the pan.

If you say yes, then what happens if she splits up with this girl and gets a new gf? Will you have already set a precedent?

It’s not minimising the behaviour, which is wrong, it’s acknowledging it’s less likely to happen between the two individuals. Social pressure in larger groups is a separate issue.

@Bleachbum because she’s still a child and shit happens.

I also don't allow large group chats period (and technically neither do her school, but they can't actually police that) . I might be a mean mum, but I am her mum and I will act accordingly, rather than being her friend.

As she gets older, rules and boundaries will change and she knows that. We're not there yet.

The age of consent applies to same sex and opposite sex relationships equally. For that reason I would explain that the law does now apply to their new status and would probably be opposed. (Although part of me also thinks making any kind of fuss about it is unwise, just that you shouldn't be seen as condoning something that is against the law).

@MrsOvertonsWindow we had that conversation too.

I jokingly tell her when she calls me "the best mum ever" for some reason or another to remember this when she’s going to be older and raging at me and thinking I'm unreasonable and know nothing.

You’re really naive tbh. My DD friend was being sent lesbian porn at the age of 11 by another girl who was supposedly a friend and known and liked by the family.

So it would be cool if was your dd13 with a boy if she was on the pill?

I don't think generally I'm a uptight person. My son told me he got shit faced and took drugs at 16 without any fear at all I would have a go at him, so I must be fairly relaxed.

But sex before 16 isn't just about stis and pregnancy. Sure is she wants to have sex she will but I'd not be 'cool' with it.

Ds mate was sleeping with someone from age 15 regularly at parent houses with full consent of all parents. The girl seems mentally pretty FU by how things ended and the boy has lots of videos of them having sex. The boy has been alienated from all his mates because of it. If they was 18 i think it would have handled more maturely

I think you need a bit maturity to deal with these emotions.

It was OK before because no one had expressed any kind of intimacy aspect in that dynamic. But it's there now. There's romantic element so it's totally changed. Some 13 year olds have sweet innocent relationships and like at my school was having sex with a different kid almost every week.