DD's friend is now her girlfriend and I don't know if rules should change.

[BlueSilverCats]

DD is 13 and y8. She's been friends with this girl(lovely ,decent kid, no concerns there).since y7, had plenty of playdates, meet ups, sleepovers etc. They started "dating " in October. I put that in inverted commas as nothing much seems to have changed. Their chats are still mostly about their interests, school stuff , silly stuff nothing heavy or too relationshipy. Apparently they do hold hands at times.

She's been invited for a sleepover next weekend and it gave me pause. If it was a boyfriend it would be an absolutely not. However it also feels wrong to stop it when it was always ok before, but I'm still uncomfortable, probably on principle.

I'm veering towards keeping things as normal . Is that the best way to deal with this? Should rules change now?

I can see why you didn't take action in October when dating and girlfriends were mentioned. Because you probably hoped it was just an innocent t friendship. It might be. The same with a boy girl friendship. But it's now time to call a halt to sleepovers. Good point made by another poster - are the other parents aware of this change in the relationship .

i agree that it's not only an issue of pregnancy. 13 year olds should not be having a sexual relationship.

I can see how this is a big challenge to be honest. Girls can have intense friendships and spend most of their time with the same friends. Sleepovers every other weekend, hanging out after school and of course at 13 they get privacy in the home. They aren’t young children who need constant supervision, open doors etc but romantic partners are different and a boyfriend would be different and also a girlfriend who was unknown. I’d recommend maybe letting their relationship continue as it is but also have conversations about how it’s important to have other friendships and relationships. My worry would be if the relationship ends and friendship ends and have alienated all other friends and being too isolated.

Since a lot of people have asked about the sleeping setup...

Sleepovers (since they started) with all of her friends tend to be the same set up. In the same room, and more often than not in the same bed.

We don't have many (maybe 10 in total, including birthdays)at our house as we don't have the space , but we do have lots of kids coming over. They just don't spend the night.

I'd be cautiously ok with the sleepover.

As much as I'd like to say I feel the same way about heterosexual young relationships as same-sex relationships, I simply don't.

Two good friends of the same sex who have become a romantic item have an entirely different social-power dynamic than two opposite-sex kids who have recently met.

Although they are very young, they are also the same age and as it sounds like they've been raised well I'd likely decide to trust that parenting and allow them to figure out their relationship boundaries between the two of them.

And I'd be very wary of putting any strict limits on them based on information that your DD gave you. That could so easily lead to her cutting off communication with you.

Honest answer? Not a chance in hell. She's quite shy and quiet with other people , doesn't like a fuss and in her own words "she doesn't like talking to people". She'd definitely tell me after the fact , or possibly message me and tell me she doesn't feel well or something(she knows she can call/message any time and I'll be right there to get her regardless of the reason and has done so before when she genuinely felt poorly), but by then it would be too late wouldn't it?

If one girl was ready for sexual experiences and one not, by allowing the sleepover you arguably add to the expectation this will happen. I would absolutely not have been able/ready to deal with this at 13. We’re all different but I think the girls should be protected from this. Can you ask the other parents to enforce separate bedrooms on this basis?

This is an awful thing to threaten a parent with - that if they put in place boundaries for a child in a same sex relationship the child might cut herself off from them.

You also make a set of sweeping unfounded assertions about power dynamics and "being raised well" that are completely unevidenced and frankly naive.

All children are entitled to be safeguarded from age inappropriate issues. You can't just "trust" parenting and allow children to navigate sexual relationships when they're below the age of consent.

No parent should be told that imposing appropriate boundaries about sexual relationships might lead to alienation from their child.

I'm not telling OP how to feel, I'm sharing my own thoughts on how I would feel, which was the question asked, no?

And the question is also about what appropriate boundaries are, not whatever you seem (edit:deem) them to be.

Also OP with the rise of phone usage / social media and blackmailing etc absolutely do not let them share a room or place together. Intimate videos / photos can end up spreading through a school / community and would literally ruin a life.
I think the sex of the children doesn’t matter, what matters is they see themselves in a ‘relationship’ and anything can happen behind closed doors. Protect your child, don’t worry about hurting her feelings now- she will thank you in the future.

I agree with this. The boundaries have changed, so no sleeping over. 13 is too young for a relationship anyway, so you need to make an extra effort to protect her.

Yes, I changed the rules. It's not about sex it's about sleepovers of 1:1 leading to a more intense relationship.

The other mum and I were on the same wavelength, it had to be group sleepovers and not just the two of them, separate beds etc.

Yes they may get up to things as teens do but you don't have to green light it when they are 13 years old.

Having worked at Secondary and in DDs case, it's really common for girls in year 8 and 9 to come out as same sex attracted and whilst I'm sure for some it becomes a lifetime attraction for many it seems to be more of a protective layer against toxic masculinity. The boys can't call them 'frigid' for not liking them or other horrible things if they openly don't like boys and it saves them all along of hassle.

If there’s any chance they’ll have sex while on the sleepover, there’s a possibility you could be seen as complicit in your DD committing a criminal offence. This information is from Scotland but I believe it applies UK-wide:

https://www.nhsborders.scot.nhs.uk/patients-and-visitors/our-services/general-services/underage-sexual-activity-interagency-guidance/sex,-young-people-and-the-law/

“It is also a criminal offence for both girls and boys aged 13, 14 and 15 to have consensual sex with anyone else aged 13, 14 or 15. This applies whether they are the initiating partner or the consenting partner”.

So, it really comes down to whether you can be assured the sleepover is solely on the basis of them being friends, which is the reason you consented to previous sleepovers.

What’s your relationship like with the other girl’s parents? How do you know they know the relationship is now being described as more than platonic? Have you spoken to them about it directly? Or is it what your DD and/or the other girl have told you? They could be putting themselves in a risky legal position if your daughter committed a criminal offence (i.e. had sex) while in their care.

If they could assure me to trust them, I’d probably agree to it. But on the strict basis that both my DD and the parents assure me it remains a platonic sleepover. I’d try to get this documented with the parents in some way. Nothing heavy. Something like a text making it clear that, as your daughters are now describing themselves as ‘girlfriends’, you’d like some reassurance the sleepover remains platonic, by them sleeping in separate rooms if necessary.

Is there an age of consent, when both participants are female?

You know DD best - for me I'd allow sleepovers but have a conversation about just because they are both girls doesn't mean things can't happen that they regret. I have friends who had early sexual experiences with other girls and regretted having gone too far when they weren't really comfortable with it.

crumbs the patriarchy really is strong eh

@BlueSilverCats I had a friend when I was 12 {she was 12} and she definitely wanted to ''be inappropriate''...I used to really not like going there to stay the night.

Exactly this.

Of course there is...the age of sexual consent is 16?!

The thing is, what if you say no (i would) and then suddenly they're not dating and back to being 'friends'. Would you then restart sleepovers without being suspicious? Just trying to think like teenage girls...

I believe the law applies equally, whatever the gender. You can’t consent under 16, so sex under 16 with anyone is legally a criminal offence.

Rarely prosecuted if the consenting young people are a similar age. But I imagine there are cases (including civil) if there’s a suggestion of coercion by one of the parties or lack of duty of care by responsible adults.

Ok so what counts legally as sexual activity, that would be illegal for under 16s to do?

So if a young girl was taking the pill, would it be okay then. She's unlikely to get pregnant after all.

To me it isn't the risk of pregnancy, it's the social pressure to engage in sexual behaviour.

As they are in a relationship now I'd be tempted to treat it similarly to a relationship with anyone, boy or girl.

We did allow sleepovers with boys and girls, on occasion.
Separate rooms for any relationships though, until over 16y and in a longer term relationship.

That did cross my mind. Them lying about it, or the relationship ending anyway as it is bound to do and then trying to figure out if it's true or not.

I have decided that this particular sleepover is not happening anyway while I think more on it/see how things progress. Luckily, due to school/other commitments it shouldn't become an issue again at least until half term.I know I'm basically just buying myself time , but it has to do for now.

How do you not know?!

It's not up to me to educate you about what sex is. Lesbian sex or otherwise.

Do your own research. I'm not getting explicit about childhood sexual activity for you.

No I wouldn't allow this. 13 is too young to be having a sleepover with a girlfriend or boyfriend.
Pregnancy isn't the only concern. I would call the others parents and explain your feelings too. I feel like they also shouldn't have encouraged this with their child being a yr7?