To ask if you know anyone personally who got pregnant by lying about contraception?

[Pavemw]

Just that, really. I have an extremely close friend who confided in me at new year that her 11 year old dd wasn’t actually an accident. I have known her half my life and our kids are friends. She was with this man for a short time and the relationship did not last the pregnancy although he does see his dd and has been pretty good to my friend financially.

I can’t get my head around it. This is someone who I go to for advice. She’s always empathetic and kind. I can’t even believe she would have done it and I don’t know why it’s bothering me as much as it is. I don’t know her ex, haven’t seen him in many years. I almost feel she’s lied to me too, which I know is silly. She said she was late 30s, had been told her fertility wasn’t great and had had enough of being messed around by men, so when this next one seemed keen to commit she just went for it. I know she has been treated badly in the past and has always put her heart out there only to be messed about or strung along so I can almost feel how frustrated she would have been but… to do this? I can’t imagine it as I had my two in a happy marriage. Maybe I being horribly judgmental. I can’t reconcile this with who I thought she was all these years. Am I being dramatic?!

The snip. If he wants to be doubly sure and she doesn't like condoms then that's the answer you're looking for.

A solution if you never ever wants kids again.

Not if you don’t want them right now.

Have a read of these threads and then come and talk about the indefensible. Threads and threads of men leaving contraception to women, even when they’re begging for a break from the pill, coil etc.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/3648054-Husband-wont-have-a-vasectomy
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4561134-partner-wont-get-a-vasectomy
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4717744-dh-doesnt-want-a-vasectomy
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/520401-to-feel-b-annoyed-that-my-husband-won-t-get
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5015422-to-be-so-flabbergasted-by-my-husbands-response-to-me-asking-him-to-get-a-vasectomy
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3616071-Partner-won-t-discuss-vasectomy-at-the-moment
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4038882-i-tried-to-discuss-vasectomies-with-my-husband-this-is-how-it-went

And there are loads more

How many more excuses do you have for men to not take responsibility?! Good grief, you're making sure they really don't have to do anything aren't you?

If you want to be doubly sure then protect yourself. Whether or not your partner 'likes' that is really a problem for your partner. If there's an issue then perhaps you're not compatible.

What excuses? I support couples agreeing among each other what their form of contraception will be. And note that vasectomies are only relevant for those who do not want children.

It’s nothing to do with “not taking responsibility”.

In my last relationship I did not use contraception because my partner had had a vasectomy - was I “failing to take responsibility”?

None of those justifies theft of consent. It’s just Whataboutery.

Multiple things can all be wrong at the same time.

Doesn't make unilaterally deciding to stop taking contraception without informing your partner right.

It’s not justification for theft of consent, it’s demonstrating that the emotional and physical toil on women is immense and many men refuse to do their bit, yet women are still expected to be the bigger person and be ‘trustworthy’.

Once again - multiple things can all be wrong at the same time.

Yep - and placing the burden of contraception on women is one of them.

Until you fix that men have to be prepared to wrap it up or live with the consequences.

👏🏻

In my last relationship I did not use contraception because my partner had had a vasectomy - was I “failing to take responsibility”?

Logically, yes. Of course! Vasectomies can fail. It's low, sure but they can. If you had fallen pregnant then yes, you bear equal responsibility for that.

The only way you can be truly, truly sure there will be no pregnancy is abstinence or homosexuality. Otherwise, protect yourself - especially if you are a man and your choices in the matter end after ejaculation.

I do - best friend years ago proudly told me she used to bin her pill every morning as she wanted to get pregnant. I was not impressed and told her so, especially as her and her DP were stuck in a 1 bed flat with negative equity in the 90s.

She proceeded to get pregnant (her DP was really shocked) and basically binned me as a friend straight away. I think the risk of the truth coming get out with me around was too much for her.

Maybe she binned you as a friend because you were judgemental about her reproductive choices?

Women aren’t owed babies without their partners consent. If both don’t want one, no baby. Either find someone else, or accept it. It is not reasonable to “claim” a baby from a man who doesn’t want one.

Everyone is owed honesty and trust. Whether that’s about contraception or family planning.

I genuinely don’t understand why this is difficult.

You’re just going to be told you’re maintaining the patriarchy and demonising women, as apparently women lying about birth control is now a tenet of feminism.

World’s gone mad.

Reproduction should be a decision made by the couple. Not unilaterally.

Do you genuinely believe that stopping using contraception without telling your partner is morally acceptable?

We're talking about the deceit aspect here-and people are glossing over that continuously to turn it around to man bashing as usual. I think men are calling for the MCP, it's women who don't want it. We can already see from this thread how many women actually think they should have sole control over the decision to have kids, the MCP will be devastating to them. Anyway this thread has been illuminating to say the least and I hope all men see it, hopefully the Daily Mail picks it up!

You have hit the nail on the head here. You can chat about who's responsible for contraception all day long, but at the end of the day, Reproduction should be a decision made by the couple. One person stopping the agreed form of contraception within a couple stops that.

Funnily enough- my view is that women aren’t just baby making machines, that is not our sole life purpose.

Nobody requires an apology or heartfelt sad faces for not doing it, and they have a choice not only if they have children, but who with and (outside of biological reasons) when.

Madness, I know!

There's a funny line in the film 'As Good as it Gets'.

The main character is a really antisocial loner who writes romance novels. He gets collared by a receptionist who asks him how he manages to write such convincing female characters. He responds:

'First I think of a man and then I take away reason and accountability.'

I'm guessing that the screenwriter was imagining somebody like Tandora when they wrote that line.

oh yes “the couple” because there’s perfect equality and symmetry (!) between men and women with regard to reproduction. No differences at all…

Do you genuinely believe that stopping using contraception without telling your partner is morally acceptable?

in Some contexts , yes, I think this is a morally defensible action for a woman to take- I’ve laid some of those contexts out if you care to read the thread.

Jesus!