To ask if you know anyone personally who got pregnant by lying about contraception?

[Pavemw]

Just that, really. I have an extremely close friend who confided in me at new year that her 11 year old dd wasn’t actually an accident. I have known her half my life and our kids are friends. She was with this man for a short time and the relationship did not last the pregnancy although he does see his dd and has been pretty good to my friend financially.

I can’t get my head around it. This is someone who I go to for advice. She’s always empathetic and kind. I can’t even believe she would have done it and I don’t know why it’s bothering me as much as it is. I don’t know her ex, haven’t seen him in many years. I almost feel she’s lied to me too, which I know is silly. She said she was late 30s, had been told her fertility wasn’t great and had had enough of being messed around by men, so when this next one seemed keen to commit she just went for it. I know she has been treated badly in the past and has always put her heart out there only to be messed about or strung along so I can almost feel how frustrated she would have been but… to do this? I can’t imagine it as I had my two in a happy marriage. Maybe I being horribly judgmental. I can’t reconcile this with who I thought she was all these years. Am I being dramatic?!

As I’ve said, the women in that situation need to leave

I think you know it’s not that simple. How often do we see these posts on mumsnet - man is still dangling promises- a few more months; woman is coming to the end of her fertile years. She’s of an age now that she might not have time to find someone else, etc.

immediately enters into an enforceable contract

So the man’s understanding concerning contraceptives is an enforceable contract, but a woman’s understanding concerning the broader terms of the relationship mean nothing?

I don’t care if that means I’m accused of being a man or a misogynist.

Don’t worry I’ve been called these things many times on this site 😂 and I’d never accuse a woman of being a man simply because she disagreed with me. I do think your perspective on this situation is anchored in patriarchy, but I don’t think that means you are a misogynist x

Then she should have had a frank conversation which agreed definite timescales years before then, shouldn't she?

I think men are also guilty of ignoring informed consent. Not one man has ever informed me he is fertile so how can women make an informed consent if men do not actively inform women of their fertility status? If women are expected to, men should be expected to - no?

That’s very sad, and as someone who lost her fertility at a young age and before she had time to do anything to stop it, such women would have my utmost sympathies. She’d be entitled to feel very angry at him and upset at herself for not leaving sooner.

Life is unfortunately full of women who’ve been unable to have children, and such women should be supported.

What they’re not entitled to do is to force an unwilling man to give them a child.

EDIT

So the man’s understanding concerning contraceptives is an enforceable contract, but a woman’s understanding concerning the broader terms of the relationship mean nothing?

A man’s understanding concerning contraceptives isn’t a contract of any sort - as this thread shows, many women abuse that understanding and the man can do jack shit.

He is entitled to believe her with respect of contraceptives. She is entitled to believe him in respect of his desire for a child, but - just as you say men need to take their own steps re: condoms - she needs to keep an eye on the years going by and consider leaving by X date if he still isn’t ready.

I do think your perspective on this situation is anchored in patriarchy, but I don’t think that means you are a misogynist x

If that means believing that you’re not dismantling the patriarchy by forcing men into having unwanted children, then I’m ok with that.

I know someone who had an oops pregnancy when her husband decided they were done and was booked in for a vasectomy. She wanted more, was devastated that she wouldn't have her dream big family. She stopped talking her pill (though I agree he was foolish to not wear condoms, knowing her upset/stance).

Sadly, their third child is profoundly disabled, requiring round the clock care. The couple are in a bitter divorce, and their other 2 children are caught in the middle.

He is entitled to believe her with respect of contraceptives. She is entitled to believe him in respect of his desire for a child

exactly. So if he breaks his promise why should she be condemned to a life of sadness and anger for the sake of upholding hers?

I wouldn’t bother feeling angry and sad. I’d just take back control and I would urge other women to do the same.

Really sorry to hear you weren’t able to have children by the way ❤️

I have just checked the statistics. For typical use, 7-9 out of 100 women will get pregnant each year whilst taking the pill. If taken correctly, with perfect timing every day and no sickness etc, then only 1-3 out of 100 will get pregnant. These numbers are not insignificant when adding up to the total number of women on the pill. The numbers drop hugely if implants are used rather than relying on a pill to be taken at exactly the same time each day.

Who does the care?

I'm guessing that round the clock care would be the NHS.

She does. He does pay maintenance, but it's mostly all on her and a small amount of local authority assistance

No, in home care. Some hours are provided by the local authority, most is her or privately funded. She no longer works as a result

Does he not see any of his kids?

Are you??? Then you don't have a clue!

I'm happy to accept that I assumed incorrectly, but 'round the clock care' suggests that a child requires 24 hour care which wouldn't be possible for a parent to provide - e.g. David Cameron's son Ivan.

I do have some experience of this due to my brother who was run over and left brain damaged and partially paralysed.

So please do fuck off.

There is a woman at work who I suspect might have done this. She already had three kids but was desperate for a 4th whilst her husband was looking forward to the having some freedom as the youngest was off to university.
They had an apparent accident and for some bizarre reason the pregnancy wasn't discovered until 27 weeks 🤷‍♀️ and she apparently thought she was going through the menopause 🤷‍♀️. Anyway the accident is now 2 years old and a total delight, so it worked out fine and they are a strong couple who still love each other madly after 25 years. But it could have gone so wrong.

Women who manipulate the situation like this are playing with fire. They could easily end up not being able to feed and clothe their children. Of course if they can manage alone and just wanted a speed donor then crack on, but I don't understand how there can ever v
Be trust in their relationship again, and frankly they deserve it if their partner leaves them.

Men who remove a condom during sex is assault. It is potentially forcing a woman to become pregnant against her will with all the medical, emotional and practical impacts that has. It is, and should be, a crime.

Getting pregnant without consent of both parties is a form of SA.

I knew a girl 19 who did this inorder to keep her dying relationship "alive". Crazy and this should be classed as abuse.

Yes a ex friend at school got pregnant by her first BF on purpose (she had issues with her Mum and wanted ‘something to love her’) she told he she was on the pill.she told me years later she told him but I was never sure. I always felt it was a shit thing to do.

A form of sexual abuse? Do not be so thoughtless.

It is unacceptable but it is not sexual abuse.

According to this thread everyone should take control of their own contraception and never trust their partner, so surely in this scenario the woman would already have her own contraception sorted? Why is she leaving it up to the man?

You did leap to women getting the coil put in at the “whim” of men.

Couldn’t be because they wanted to, or needed to - has to be an irresponsible man telling them what to do.

I’ll grant you, I asked him. But I asked him because that was our contraceptive plan at the time, I wouldn’t have changed it without an explicit discussion, and whether we had kids or not was both of our businesses.

I know someone that has done this twice. First time with her long term DP, she hadn’t had sex with him since she was pregnant with her first that was planned. He thought she was still on the pill. And then another time after she split with her DP lied to her boyfriend of 3 months. I don’t speak to her anymore.

eh?

This is tragic, but I'm not sure how the conversation is supposed to go when the husband suddenly insists on wearing a condom when the wife insists she is taking contraception - what does this say about their relationship?

I agree. Obviously I don't know everything about their relationship, but they had the marriage you wished to have, you know? Been together so long. I doubt he'd ever have thought she would be deceitful like that.
It's such a sad situation, but entirely avoidable.