To ask if you know anyone personally who got pregnant by lying about contraception?

[Pavemw]

Just that, really. I have an extremely close friend who confided in me at new year that her 11 year old dd wasn’t actually an accident. I have known her half my life and our kids are friends. She was with this man for a short time and the relationship did not last the pregnancy although he does see his dd and has been pretty good to my friend financially.

I can’t get my head around it. This is someone who I go to for advice. She’s always empathetic and kind. I can’t even believe she would have done it and I don’t know why it’s bothering me as much as it is. I don’t know her ex, haven’t seen him in many years. I almost feel she’s lied to me too, which I know is silly. She said she was late 30s, had been told her fertility wasn’t great and had had enough of being messed around by men, so when this next one seemed keen to commit she just went for it. I know she has been treated badly in the past and has always put her heart out there only to be messed about or strung along so I can almost feel how frustrated she would have been but… to do this? I can’t imagine it as I had my two in a happy marriage. Maybe I being horribly judgmental. I can’t reconcile this with who I thought she was all these years. Am I being dramatic?!

This is at least a fairly consistent approach if not a little naive of how intimate partnerships work and the fact that general partners do trust each other or they would not date.

Completely! Teen boys should be using condoms as there is a risk for pregnancy and STIs. Even if she says she uses contraception he should still do as none like the pill, implant, coil, depo cover for STIs.

Yes, I agree that in general partners do trust each other, so it can be seen as naive.

But if you want to avoid a child it’s the right approach.

So are you saying that men should always wear condoms no matter how longstanding the relationship? That they can never truly trust their partner to take the contraceptive correctly?

Do you work for durex?

If I didn’t want a child, I would have asked for proof of a vasectomy.

So you’d happily be friends with someone who has assaulted another? Who had a child with someone only because of their own deception?

Curious to know your thoughts if it was the other way around and it was a man who did this?

No contraception bloody hell what of STIs regardless of his vasectomy.

Exactly this! Why lie? If a woman thinks her partner would still have unprotected sex with her anyway, then why bother? It’s because they think their partner might chose not to and they want to remove the possibility. And thus, removing their partners ability to make an informed choice. This is never ok.

This is about consent and the understanding of what you are agreeing to. If a man does not ask his partner if she is using anything or has sex with his partner in the full knowledge she is not using contraception and he still chooses not to use a condom- that’s on him.

In a committed relationship, I don’t think it unreasonable to expect your partner to be honest with you about contraception. Are there other areas those saying it’s fine to lie to your partner about contraception are equally happen to lie- or be lied to- about? From my experience of MN, most object to any dishonesty in relationships which is why I find it so odd so many on here are defending dishonesty about a very fundamental part of a relationship.

I think the other thing that is being dismissed by those who feel lying about contraception because “the man could use a condom if he didn’t want a child”- is that it isn’t about the fact that having sex runs a risk pregnancy, even with contraception (which is, of course, true) it’s about the fact that we make choices based on our understanding of the level of risk. Personally, I accept the risk using a form of contraception that is 99+% effective but would not have totally unprotected sex (I’m a woman). I imagine many men feel the same.

I think if you place the responsibility for contraception on someone then you need to be prepared for any consequences.

So you’d happily be friends with someone who has assaulted another?

That relies on me agreeing that it assault.

Curious to know your thoughts if it was the other way around and it was a man who did this?

Then read the thread, it's been addressed several times.

I think grown ups, of both genders, should be able to have sensible conversations with their partner about their contraceptive choices, and then believe those things are true.

Isn't the responsibility something agreed between the couple? If one of the couple unilaterally decides to change it shouldn't both partners be made aware? So that informed consent can be made.

This. I am astounded by the number of women in here who feel informed consent only applies to women. I think it is appalling.

No one needs you to agree it’s assault when that’s what the law says.

It IS assault regardless of if you want to admit it or not.

That definitely isn’t the standard of friend I want.

Remember, your company shows who you are too.

Ideally, yes. But the desire to procreate is an atavistic urge, if I was sure I didn’t want a child, I would place more trust in my own contraceptive choices than someone else’s.

I think your response is way OTT TBH. Apart from anything else it's nothing to do with you .It's her business.Maybe morally wrong, but shes late 30s probably desperate for DC and sick of being messed around by men as she says .You have been fortunate enough to be in a happy marriage with two children! Count your blessings and dont judge others .

Again, ideally yes. But if you are choosing to have unprotected sex then you are taking the risk.

The contraceptive choices made in a committed relationship should be between both people.

Neither myself or my partner like condoms, we don’t use them and never have. I could count on one hand the amount of times I’ve used them in my whole life.

I’m on the pill, that’s not 100% baby proof and we both accept that low risk. But it is both of our risk, as the baby would be both of ours.

If I just came off the pill, with no warning or discussion, that’s my wrongdoing, because I’ve gone against something that we have agreed without his knowledge.

I honestly don’t understand why there’s so many on this thread who think men are at fault for female choices.

@tandora No, you are in the “informed consent only applies to women” camp. And in the, “deception of your partner is totally ok, as long you’re a woman” camp. Do you genuinely think this is absolutely fine? Do you genuinely think consent only applies to women as they are the ones that get pregnant?

I would say two of my friends did this to their husband although they have never confessed I am 98% sure. The one because the husband didn't want a third child, and the other because they had just got married and he wanted to wait a while.

It’s not just morally wrong, it’s assault.

The contraceptive pill risk is not equally on you both though in terms of effort.

He is not the one that has to take it and worry about it, you are.

Again, this is fine for most (like you), but there have been threads where women have been in a panic because they forgot to take the pill or they were sick whilst taking the pill and were afraid their partners would be angry at a pregnancy.

They then often get pressured into an abortion.

But the risk of pregnancy depends on whether contraceptives are used. Informed consent is important

Without informing your partner then it's fundamentally dishonest. I have no idea why people would defend this.

So why is he willing to put her at risk? If she says she is on the pill he is informed that he still has a duty to protect her health. If he chooses to risk her health then that is his choice. He has a choice. Why is him risking her health without a condom ok if she is on the pill?

It’s a real hardship taking that one tablet everyday, I must admit.

Those people, as awful as that sounds, have a partner problem not a contraception problem. If you can’t tell your partner that your contraception may fail because you’ve been sick, you need a new one.

My ex husband for example, told me to get the coil taken out so we could try for children then told me 2 weeks after its removal that he didn’t love me anymore. That’s not the coils fault, it’s his. I went on the pill (and obviously abstained anyway).

The person, has changed, my reproductive choices, have not.