Page 39 | To ask if you know anyone personally who got pregnant by lying about contraception?

Pavemw · 2025-01-03T19:57:59+00:00

Just that, really. I have an extremely close friend who confided in me at new year that her 11 year old dd wasn’t actually an accident. I have known her half my life and our kids are friends. She was with this man for a short time and the relationship did not last the pregnancy although he does see his dd and has been pretty good to my friend financially. I can’t get my head around it. This is someone who I go to for advice. She’s always empathetic and kind. I can’t even believe she would have done it and I don’t know why it’s bothering me as much as it is. I don’t know her ex, haven’t seen him in many years. I almost feel she’s lied to me too, which I know is silly. She said she was late 30s, had been told her fertility wasn’t great and had had enough of being messed around by men, so when this next one seemed keen to commit she just went for it. I know she has been treated badly in the past and has always put her heart out there only to be messed about or strung along so I can almost feel how frustrated she would have been but… to do this? I can’t imagine it as I had my two in a happy marriage. Maybe I being horribly judgmental. I can’t reconcile this with who I thought she was all these years. Am I being dramatic?!

JHound · 06/01/2025 13:28

HelmholtzWatson · 06/01/2025 06:34

eh?

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Spelling error.

I was agreeing with you.

JHound · 06/01/2025 13:30

HelmholtzWatson · 06/01/2025 06:40

This is tragic, but I'm not sure how the conversation is supposed to go when the husband suddenly insists on wearing a condom when the wife insists she is taking contraception - what does this say about their relationship?

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This is a question I have in terms of all the naive responses that state “hE sHOuLd wEAr a COnDoM too”.

That he should announce “look I don’t trust you to take the pill ok?”

Or if he says “let’s just be doubly safe” and she would prefer not to use condoms (not all women like the feel.

What then?

JHound · 06/01/2025 13:36

DinkyDale · 05/01/2025 18:57

I know someone who had an oops pregnancy when her husband decided they were done and was booked in for a vasectomy. She wanted more, was devastated that she wouldn't have her dream big family. She stopped talking her pill (though I agree he was foolish to not wear condoms, knowing her upset/stance).

Sadly, their third child is profoundly disabled, requiring round the clock care. The couple are in a bitter divorce, and their other 2 children are caught in the middle.

This is awful but sadly I am not surprised. I don’t think my marriage could survive a decision like that either.

JHound · 06/01/2025 13:39

Tandora · 05/01/2025 18:59

He is entitled to believe her with respect of contraceptives. She is entitled to believe him in respect of his desire for a child

exactly. So if he breaks his promise why should she be condemned to a life of sadness and anger for the sake of upholding hers?

I wouldn’t bother feeling angry and sad. I’d just take back control and I would urge other women to do the same.

Really sorry to hear you weren’t able to have children by the way ❤️

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What promise has been broken?

Saying they want kids but are not pregnant?

And how would this justify forcing somebody into parenthood? Just LEAVE!

JHound · 06/01/2025 13:41

Tandora · 05/01/2025 17:57

Because men and women have completely different experiences in relation to reproduction so reversing things isn’t even remotely comparable.
In one case the man is taking action that has profound consequences for a woman’s body: in the other case the woman is asking that she be allowed to do something with her own body,.

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Why was she relying on him?

Why was she not using her own contraception?

JHound · 06/01/2025 13:42

MixedCouple2 · 05/01/2025 20:23

Getting pregnant without consent of both parties is a form of SA.

I knew a girl 19 who did this inorder to keep her dying relationship "alive". Crazy and this should be classed as abuse.

I call it SA adjacent. It really is.

Alina3 · 06/01/2025 13:43

A couple, yeah.

Pretended they had kept taking the pill regularly when they'd stopped.

It's sexual assault by coercion honestly, when that person wouldn't have consented to sex had they known the reality. It's very different to a genuine contraception fail, which does happen rarely. Lying to someone that you're on contraception so they'll have unprotected sex with you is barbaric. I would struggle to remain friends with someone who did that, and the two people I know who admitted it I told their partners and blocked them everywhere. I'm not being party to such a life changing, awful deception.

Tandora · 06/01/2025 13:51

JHound · 06/01/2025 13:42

I call it SA adjacent. It really is.

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Luckily the law doesn’t agree with you there

AnonymousBleep · 06/01/2025 14:05

The much more common version of this is that men nag women into not using condoms 'because it feels much nicer' and don't ask or care if she's on the pill, yet it's somehow still the woman's fault for 'tricking' him if she gets pregnant.

But yeah it's mainly women's fault for tricking men, obvs.

schmeler · 06/01/2025 14:08

JHound · 06/01/2025 13:30

This is a question I have in terms of all the naive responses that state “hE sHOuLd wEAr a COnDoM too”.

That he should announce “look I don’t trust you to take the pill ok?”

Or if he says “let’s just be doubly safe” and she would prefer not to use condoms (not all women like the feel.

What then?

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He has a choice what he does with his dick. If she said she doesn't like the feel of it and prefers him not to and he goes "Oh ok then" then that is his choice. He doesn't have to carry on. He can say "No I want to be safe". It is a choice he then makes.

ItGhoul · 06/01/2025 14:10

Yes - my former SIL. Four times. She openly admits to it.

Choccyscofffy · 06/01/2025 14:14

jacks11 · 05/01/2025 17:00

i think you are not clear what informed consent is. I think you also don’t understand risk either. Risks are absolutely not all equal. Risk is far more nuanced.

In the scenario you outlined the woman is absolutely informed about the lack of contraception that her partner is willing to use. She might not agree with his actions (or lack thereof) but she does know that he is not going to use condoms and has not had a vasectomy. She can then decide whether or not to have sex with him on the basis of that knowledge. If she still chooses to have sex with him, she has consented to sex within those terms- it is, therefore, informed consent. Obviously, coercion within an abusive relationship is a different thing- but then the issue is not deceit by her partner preventing her from making an informed decision, is it? the problem in that scenario is that the victim is not actually making the choice to have sex of her own free will. The issue is actually consent in and of itself.

In answer to your question, outside of rape and abusive/coercive relationships, if a woman’s partner will not use condoms or agree to a vasectomy- and assuming she does not want to be pregnant- she has a number of options, however unpalatable they might be. She can refuse to have any form of sexual contact with him if will not use a condom or has not had a vasectomy; she can refuse to have penetrative intercourse; or, she can end the relationship. If she does want to get pregnant and it is her partner who does not want to conceive, but he still refuses to use any form of contraception, then she still has choices. She can end the relationship; she can still refuse to have intercourse as he is being unreasonable; she can make him aware she is not going to be using contraception and if he wants to prevent a pregnancy it’s up to him to take appropriate action. If he fails to do that, it’s on him.

None of those things bear relation to a woman actively and deliberately choosing to tell her partner she is taking contraception when she is not. it’s a false conflation of two related but different issues.

With regards to your “risk is risk” statement, you are factually incorrect. It’s why Dr’s quote risk when seeking consent from patients prior to surgery or when weighing up treatment options. There are even things like absolute vs relative risks to consider. Risks are not all made equal. I suspect that you know this. People may be comfortable with a treatment with a small risk of serious complication but not with a much higher one. They consent based on understanding the risk they are taking. By your estimate all a dr would have to do is say the both option carry a risk of, say, death. Or loss of sight, or paralysis, or whatever, and not quantity the risk. Or not tell the patient that the effectiveness of one treatment is significantly greater than the other- because there is a risk of failure with both options. After all “risk is risk” right?

A more direct illustration of why relative risk is important and may change choices or behaviour (which is why being misinformed is so wrong) is chances of conception. Statistically, 90% of couples under 40 who are having regular unprotected intercourse will conceive within 12 months. If a woman has the contraceptive implant that drops to 0.02%. If she’s on the pill that would be 8% (allowing for real life effectiveness as the 98% technical effectiveness is reduced by imperfect use to around 92%). I can easily understand why a couple not wanting to conceive would be satisfied with the protection offered by LARC, or even the pill. Both parties would still have to accept that the possibility is not zero, but a 0.02% risk is tiny when compared to 90% if nothing is used. If you thought you were taking a 0.02% risk of an adverse event and later found you had been tricked into running a 90% risk of that adverse event (which happened), I think we’d all agree you would be right to feel aggrieved/betrayed/violated. If you can’t see that distinction, and the importance it plays in informed consent, you are either quite dense or deliberately obtuse.

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With regards to your “risk is risk” statement, you are factually incorrect

I also explained this upthread, here is it copied and pasted:

My point is a woman can get pregnant with or without informed consent on contraception, so if you don’t want a child, minimise the risk of a pregnancy by being responsible for your own contraception.

This is backed up by the law. You can’t tell the CMS you won’t support your child because you didn’t consent to its conception.

Choccyscofffy · 06/01/2025 14:14

ItGhoul · 06/01/2025 14:10

Yes - my former SIL. Four times. She openly admits to it.

You’d think he’d have clocked it after the first time.

Choccyscofffy · 06/01/2025 14:23

randomchap · 05/01/2025 16:51

Not if he trusts his partner. It's a shame that trust isn't a given in some relationships.

I've also got to wonder what would happen in a long term relationship if the bloke started to use condoms. Is that a sign he doesn't trust his wife, could it be because he's cheating and got an STI? How would you react if your partner started using a condom?

It's morally wrong to string someone along obviously.

On your other point, what did you mean when you said "Risk is risk". I read it as you were suggesting that the risk or pregnancy is the same whether contraceptives are used or not. Can you explain what you actually meant?

@Tandora

This duality where the woman becomes responsible for ensuring the man does not have a baby at the same time as desperately wanting another baby is quite unfair on the woman.

In a relationship the contraception should be agreed by both partners. Making a unilateral change and not informing your partner is wrong. Whether or not the bloke has been stringing her along for years.

I think we fundamentally disagree on this.

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Not if he trusts his partner.

It almost always falls to women to be the trustworthy one.

And if she has a bad week or sickness and fails to take the pill she may have to bear the man’s wrath as well, as we see time and time again on MN.

Why aren’t more men calling for the MCP?

Choccyscofffy · 06/01/2025 14:25

fitzwilliamdarcy · 05/01/2025 16:35

Why should a woman be forced to give up her chance to have a child because a man has lied to her for years to get what he wants and consequence free? It’s her body after all.

I genuinely find people who think like this terrifying. Babies aren’t a revenge plot or a great equaliser against someone that’s wronged you. The way to deal with a man not giving you the children he “promised” is to leave him and find someone more suitable.

Some MNetters love to say that MN is now full of people who hate kids. I think you’d have to hate them to advocate these circumstances as OK for them to be brought into the world.

I’m speaking as someone who was forced to give up my chance to have a child at 32, due to a medical emergency. Oddly enough, nobody suggested to me that I had the right to avenge myself, and they were quite right not to.

@randomchap says if a man trusts a woman not to get pregnant then she should not get pregnant.

So one could say if a man tells a woman they will have a baby in x years then she should be able to trust him that they will have a baby in x years.

What you and others are actually saying is that the onus is on the women to be trustworthy.

randomchap · 06/01/2025 14:27

Choccyscofffy · 06/01/2025 14:23

Not if he trusts his partner.

It almost always falls to women to be the trustworthy one.

And if she has a bad week or sickness and fails to take the pill she may have to bear the man’s wrath as well, as we see time and time again on MN.

Why aren’t more men calling for the MCP?

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If she has a bad week and can't take the pill for whatever reason she can simply tell him. They can then choose together what contraceptive to use.

You've still not explained what you mean by Risk is Risk.

I'm going to leave this here as your answers are disingenuous and you're avoiding answering simple questions and clarifying what you mean

Agree to disagree

Choccyscofffy · 06/01/2025 14:30

jacks11 · 05/01/2025 17:42

But that would still not make it right for her to say she is using a contraceptive if she is not. Two wrongs never make a right. Lying to your partner about a contraceptive you had agreed to take because you have now decided you want a baby (knowing they don’t) is indefensible because it is removing the opportunity for informed consent. It’s is never ok- however much you are unhappy about a certain aspect of your relationship.

If you as a couple agree a form of contraception, whoever is ultimately responsible for using it, then it’s up to both parties to uphold their agreement. If one of them wishes to change that agreement, then they should inform their partner about it. That does not mean that a woman has to get her partners permission to stop the pill or remove an IUD etc. She absolutely does not, all she needs to do can inform her partner she is no longer will to continue to use the contraceptive they had agreed on and so he is responsible for using a condom if he wants to prevent pregnancy. Once she has done that, it’s his responsibility to take appropriate action, and if he doesn’t then he only has himself to blame.

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I think you’ve missed the wider sociological and economic reasons that Tandora and I were discussing.

As Tandora says, her friend was talked into not going down the condom route by her husband. Yes her friend could have said no to sex. And then what next? Her husband divorces for her no sex.

Choccyscofffy · 06/01/2025 14:33

randomchap · 06/01/2025 14:27

If she has a bad week and can't take the pill for whatever reason she can simply tell him. They can then choose together what contraceptive to use.

You've still not explained what you mean by Risk is Risk.

I'm going to leave this here as your answers are disingenuous and you're avoiding answering simple questions and clarifying what you mean

Agree to disagree

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If she’s forgotten to take the pill she can’t tell him because she’s forgotten. If she’s fallen sick and hasn’t realised it’s interfered with the pill, she can’t tell him because she doesn’t know.

I have explained the risk is risk comment and just copied and pasted it again upthread. You really can’t scroll up a few posts?

That’s not me being disingenuous, it’s you being obtuse.

firef1y · 06/01/2025 14:34

Tbh even if she did lie about contraception, the man still had some responsibility for protection if he didn't want a baby. No method of contraception is 100% reliable, in fact the only 100% reliable method of contraception is not to do it at all and that includes all the foreplay, because it is possible for sperms to leak out and be transfered.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 06/01/2025 15:00

Choccyscofffy · 06/01/2025 14:25

@randomchap says if a man trusts a woman not to get pregnant then she should not get pregnant.

So one could say if a man tells a woman they will have a baby in x years then she should be able to trust him that they will have a baby in x years.

What you and others are actually saying is that the onus is on the women to be trustworthy.

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There is an enormous difference between a woman lying about being on birth control and a man saying he'd like children in the future but then changing his mind.

The former is dishonesty. The latter is something anyone is entitled to do. Nobody, man or woman, should be forced to have a baby in 2030 because they indicated they'd be up for having children in 2024.

And even if the man is dishonest and knows all along that he doesn't want children, but just lies about it - that's dreadful behaviour but it doesn't entitle her to force him to father a baby.

The onus is on everyone to be honest about things, especially when it comes to the creation of new life. What you and others are advocating is an additional step: the woman being allowed to punish the man for not giving her a baby, by forcing him to give her a baby. That I keep having to point out that this is a) abhorrent and b) not an act of feminism is bananas.

Choccyscofffy · 06/01/2025 15:06

fitzwilliamdarcy · 06/01/2025 15:00

There is an enormous difference between a woman lying about being on birth control and a man saying he'd like children in the future but then changing his mind.

The former is dishonesty. The latter is something anyone is entitled to do. Nobody, man or woman, should be forced to have a baby in 2030 because they indicated they'd be up for having children in 2024.

And even if the man is dishonest and knows all along that he doesn't want children, but just lies about it - that's dreadful behaviour but it doesn't entitle her to force him to father a baby.

The onus is on everyone to be honest about things, especially when it comes to the creation of new life. What you and others are advocating is an additional step: the woman being allowed to punish the man for not giving her a baby, by forcing him to give her a baby. That I keep having to point out that this is a) abhorrent and b) not an act of feminism is bananas.

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What you and others are advocating is an additional step: the woman being allowed to punish the man for not giving her a baby, by forcing him to give her a baby

Actually if you read my posts I haven’t advocated this.

What I’m trying to do is shine a light on the hypocrisy on both this thread and in society.

You and others continue to ignore that many women don’t have full agency, and that the system has been designed so that women are ultimately held to account much more than the man.

That I keep having to point out that this is a) abhorrent and b) not an act of feminism is bananas.

That you keep repeating this shows you’ve blinded yourself to the reality in favour of a black and white approach that demonises women.

JHound · 06/01/2025 16:06

Tandora · 06/01/2025 13:51

Luckily the law doesn’t agree with you there

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I’m aware and I don’t care.

Tandora · 06/01/2025 16:44

Choccyscofffy · 06/01/2025 15:06

What you and others are advocating is an additional step: the woman being allowed to punish the man for not giving her a baby, by forcing him to give her a baby

Actually if you read my posts I haven’t advocated this.

What I’m trying to do is shine a light on the hypocrisy on both this thread and in society.

You and others continue to ignore that many women don’t have full agency, and that the system has been designed so that women are ultimately held to account much more than the man.

That I keep having to point out that this is a) abhorrent and b) not an act of feminism is bananas.

That you keep repeating this shows you’ve blinded yourself to the reality in favour of a black and white approach that demonises women.

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👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

Tandora · 06/01/2025 16:49

fitzwilliamdarcy · 06/01/2025 15:00

There is an enormous difference between a woman lying about being on birth control and a man saying he'd like children in the future but then changing his mind.

The former is dishonesty. The latter is something anyone is entitled to do. Nobody, man or woman, should be forced to have a baby in 2030 because they indicated they'd be up for having children in 2024.

And even if the man is dishonest and knows all along that he doesn't want children, but just lies about it - that's dreadful behaviour but it doesn't entitle her to force him to father a baby.

The onus is on everyone to be honest about things, especially when it comes to the creation of new life. What you and others are advocating is an additional step: the woman being allowed to punish the man for not giving her a baby, by forcing him to give her a baby. That I keep having to point out that this is a) abhorrent and b) not an act of feminism is bananas.

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There is an enormous difference between a woman lying about being on birth control and a man saying he'd like children in the future but then changing his mind.

why? How about a woman agrees to take birth control, but then just changes her mind 💁🏼‍♀️

And even if the man is dishonest and knows all along that he doesn't want children, but just lies about it - that's dreadful behaviour but it doesn't entitle her to force him to father a baby.

So he gets to lie so he can have sex (+ companionship , + housework, + whatever else , on tap) for years, potentially ruining a women’s chances of ever having a baby, and instead of just making the choice to be happy because she can, the woman is supposed to roll over and be miserable all for the sake of said lying man , to spare him a few tuppence, and all because you said so?
To hell with that.

randomchap · 06/01/2025 16:56

The number of people defending the indefensible in here makes me wonder how many of them decided to have an oops baby.

No matter what the circumstances are, stopping taking contraception in a long term relationship without informing your partner is wrong.