to think DS's girlfriend is taking the piss and he needs legal advice

[redwingparty]

Keeping this short as I don't want DS to be outed, though I could write a very long post about this woman, but the main thing is:

DS2 has just bought a flat, his girlfriend has moved in and she is not paying him rent. She is lazy by nature (stayed with us at Christmas but refused to help prep food, lay the table or clear up afterwards because she 'didn't want to'; she spent most of her time in bed) She has just started a MW job and I overheard her say to DS that since he was not charging her anything to live with him, she will only do three days a week.

DS has a long commute, long hours and two second casual jobs at weekends.

I am worried that he will get fed up of her sponging off him but be unable to get her to leave the flat legally if it is her main home. What rights does she have?

Also she mentioned setting up a sideline business of her own from the spare bedroom of the flat which would involve strangers coming into the house. DS1 told me this is probably illegal and against the lease, and could invalidate the contents insurance. But I think DS would find it hard to say no to her (which in itself is a bit of a problem - he idolises her and she puts him down very subtly but frequently).

AIBU to think we should get some legal advice about her housing rights and rights to operate a small business (similar to hairdressing) from the flat?

No its interfering.

The truth is you do not know anything... you are not part of the relationship, you don't know their pillow talk and in many cases people make the mistake of seeing a parent or friend as a safe space to 'vent' too when frustrated but that does NOT mean its black and white 'truth' and they want you to hate the person they love and get involved.

You are suppose to listen patiently and stay out of it unless SPECIFICALLY asked. That doesn't mean talked to it means asked. Example: 'mum I want to leave can I come stay with you until I find a place?' is an ask where you jump in and help.

Where as 'Mary is so lazy she didn't do the dishes AGAIN and never puts the milk away and theres a pile of clothes on the chair in the bedroom. This weekend she spent all Friday night at Sandra drinking Prosecco while I was working overtime, you know Sandra the insufferable gossip who drags Mary into drama' is not an 'ask' its a VENT.

If you act on it when you where not asked too with only one side of the story that they that is in reality just their mild irritants you will quickly find yourself pushed out and no longer you DS 'safe space'.

Well, I'm not a trad wife.

Neither am I. My husband co- hosts with me. I don't expect guests to work.

Most flats in England.

They might offer. But I wouldn't accept or expect them to work.

But yet doing jobs which are often essential and which most of us make use of.

I have a son that age.
Absolutely no way I wouldn't be spelling it out to him that this situation is not good and could bring drama to his door.

OP can't tell him what to do but she 100% as a loving parent tell him her concerns and say I respect that you will make you own choices but I would be remiss if I didn't piint out the following.

If things so tits up in this situation, you cannot pretend you were not clearly warned beforehand.

I have done this a few times and said , completely up to you, but you need to ve aware of x,y, and z.

Thats what a good parent does.
It may take a while for it to sink in but likely it will percolate and land.

Normal parents only ever want the best for their children and prevent unnecessary drama in their lives.

Conversely some kids need to learn the hard way a few times.

You're making it sound like she asked her to scrub the toilet.
It is not rude to ask a guest that is staying for a week to help set the table. More so a guest who will presumably become family if the relationship progresses.

I've read some of the replies and some people are advising that any money she pays should be kept separate from the mortgage

i just wanted to be add that you should seek legal advice around this and the money that she pays for her keep.

It is my understanding that in a legal dispute she could argue that if any money she pays goes towards ANYTHING to do with the house then she is INDIRECTLY paying the mortgage, or at least assisting him to.

That means electricity, heating, food, council tax, repairs, decorating. She is paying bills that allow him to pay the mortgage.

I don't think it's enough to just keep that money separate. He may end up having to buy out her implied interest in the property later. That's why banks are so keen to get cohabitees to sign documents putting the bank ahead of themselves

This thread would be so different if the OP thought her daughter was in a coercive, abusive relationship or if her daughters BF was freeloading.

Because this is about a young man….

No it isn't. She has the status of a lodger.

Why leap to such extreme reactions? No. I wouldn't be "insulted" or "offended". I might think it's a bit odd.

I also think being "waited on" is a weird way describe waiting for lunch or dinner to be ready.

And I wouldn't want some one "helping out" in my kitchen ("where do you keep , x,y and z? Or getting offended because I don't go in for the obsessive scrubbing and cleaning of everything which seems to be the norm on here)

No it wouldn't be... I would still tell her to stay out of it.

This isn't coercive abuse its the OP thinking shes 'lazy' and a 'freeloader' but she doesn't know the ins and outs of this and its not her relationship, money or life.

If my mam had got involved in my life like this I would have told her where to shove it. Same way I never dreamed of having a say in my mother could do with her relationships/life/money.

What’s the mumsnet female version of a cocklodger???
Op if your son was a daughter the responses would be very different. Misogyny is rife here!

It's a huge leap to suggest I would be "offended or insulted" . I don't understand why you would think that.

I think this is to do with how you are raised. In my house it would be very rude indeed to ask guests to do chores or help with food prep - the whole point is that they are your guests so should be hosted.

I do think OP's gf is a guest in this scenario. OP should expect her husband, son and adult children to help out, but not a new gf in my opinion.

OP can't tell him what to do but she 100% as a loving parent tell him her concerns and say I respect that you will make you own choices but I would be remiss if I didn't point out the following.

That is exactly what I would do in similar circumstances @Critsey

I don't think adult DC partners count as guests, do they? They are there because adult child wants them there, it's not like the parents have invited them like they might with their own friends, or their 80 year old great Aunty Ethel.

Saying that, my Mum was a guest in my house at Christmas until she was 86/87 years old - she would always do a little bit of veg prep or whatever she could manage from where she was parked. She would not have dreamed of going to bed for most of her visit. If she'd been able to stand up for long periods in her final years, you bet she would have been helping with clearing up, dishwasher, cups of tea etc.

Haven’t read past this post. I have recently found a deep well of rage that no-one (read: my parents) told me that what I was experiencing in my relationship wasn’t normal and wasn’t ok. I feel now that no-one looked out for me, leaving me materially substantially worse off.

I think now I would have to say something- but I might do it in a “please let me say this, and hear it, and then I won’t mention it again but know that if you ever decide to act on what I am about to say I will help you, and if you don’t I will still support and love you, and be supportive of your chosen partner. But I won’t be able to retrospectively save you” sort of way. And then stick to it, don’t eye roll or sigh at the girlfriend, or mention it again.

If it's sons flat, it's his flat. She has no right to it, (if not paying anything, named on mortgage or married)
There is a stated case over one aprry owning a flat, the other paid rent. When they split, the non-owner wanted a share of the property. The judge ruled against them because rhe judge said if they hadn't lived there, they would have had to pay to live somewhere else.
Basically, she is a lodger, only reasonable notice is needed and 2 weeks is reasonable.

Even if she was paying rent, it's fairly simple. If they're not married, she will have no entitlement to stay if they break up. Business or no.

If she is planing to work from home I would have 2 concerns. If your DS has bought the flat but it's not freehold (I'm in Scotland so please bear with me) then he may have to pay capital gains tax if a business is being run from his premises. if it's from a landlord then he will/may be in breach of his letting agreement. I don't know about English law and I only know about Scottish law as DH was planning to claim exemptions on energy, council tax etc but it would have cost too much so just went ahead with working from home without claiming anything. It's worth looking into.
I should also add that I haven't read everything so appreciate this may already have been covered.

I should have added I'm not a lawyer or a legal expert just from experience from DH.