to think DS's girlfriend is taking the piss and he needs legal advice

[redwingparty]

Keeping this short as I don't want DS to be outed, though I could write a very long post about this woman, but the main thing is:

DS2 has just bought a flat, his girlfriend has moved in and she is not paying him rent. She is lazy by nature (stayed with us at Christmas but refused to help prep food, lay the table or clear up afterwards because she 'didn't want to'; she spent most of her time in bed) She has just started a MW job and I overheard her say to DS that since he was not charging her anything to live with him, she will only do three days a week.

DS has a long commute, long hours and two second casual jobs at weekends.

I am worried that he will get fed up of her sponging off him but be unable to get her to leave the flat legally if it is her main home. What rights does she have?

Also she mentioned setting up a sideline business of her own from the spare bedroom of the flat which would involve strangers coming into the house. DS1 told me this is probably illegal and against the lease, and could invalidate the contents insurance. But I think DS would find it hard to say no to her (which in itself is a bit of a problem - he idolises her and she puts him down very subtly but frequently).

AIBU to think we should get some legal advice about her housing rights and rights to operate a small business (similar to hairdressing) from the flat?

There may also be restricted covenants on his flat that prevent a business being run. There is on my house.

He needs to check.

I agree he’s better off with her not paying rent to him - means she doesn’t have any legal right to stay in the property.

It does seem a bit off if she didn’t help out if asked when staying with you - providing your son was also helping of course, it would be a bit off if you asked her and not him. Usually family help out when staying.

Working three days a week as a MW might still be very hard work and long shifts though.

When I was young, I did say to my then boyfriend that I wasn’t going to live in a property he owned and pay rent to him. He was free to buy his own property and I would either not live with him or not pay rent but I wasn’t going to live in his flat and pay him rent. He ended up waiting til we could buy together, which was shortly before we got married in the end.

This may or may not have been sensible as we ended up divorced, but I wasn’t going to get into the situation of living with someone who was getting their mortgage paid partly by me, but took all the benefit for themselves. I could just imagine that situation going on forever.

Given you don't wish to be identified, not easy to offer much advice as the age of your son is not mentioned. Or indeed that of his girlfriend, or much about her circumstances. If he is someone who has not found it easy in the past to form relationships, and like many considers there is a stigma in being single, you may find it hard to get him to see sense.

Be very careful what you say to your son, he might stay with her/marry her/have children with her. Better to maintain a good relationship with him and be there to pick up the pieces if necessary. Sympathies, it is hard to watch one's adult DC making unwise choices, but they need to make their own decisions.

That puzzled me but presumably it's that weird English law thing of "leasehold property" where the long lease of the flat might stipulate residential use only? *

The girlfriend has no right to stay in the property even if she were to pay rent. She's a lodger- lodgers have no rights in the property they share with the owner-occupier.

The business use may well invalidate the buildings insurance unless notified to the insurer and the insurer accepts it. It probably breaches planning law as well.

*["leasehold" of residential property looks utterly bizarre from a Scots law perspective where everyone owns their flats]

How exactly is she going to do that? 🤔Are you expecting OP to shapeshift into a packet of durex?

If she pays anything, she's a lodger. Still gives her no rights.

I wonder if they meant the Freehold. They can be very oddly written

Leasehold is right - it’s when you own a flat but not the building or a share of the building.

It's obvious he needs to work on his boundaries, because op you are over stepping a boundary that should be in place, it's none of your business.

It's not your issue, your son will have to find his big boy pants and start articulating and enforcing his boundaries.

Some English based insurers have difficulty with understanding that in Scotland you own your own flat and are co- owners of the ground the building is built on and the common parts of the building along with the other flat owners. Scottish flats have title conditions, not lease conditions, which prevent commercial use.

Sorry for the diversion but it just boggles me that English law came up with, and stuck with, a system of ownership of flats that seems to cause so many problems.

and the Scots way looks weird from the English perspective. If you share a roof and gutters with 5 other families, how do you organise fixing them and maintaining them and deciding which way it goes if some people want to and some don't?

This is very one-sided. It’s often a very shit situation if the man buys a property without the woman if it’s meant to be a proper relationship. It basically invalidates the relationship, having kids etc. investment in future, any of the things she might want. Been there. I’d advise her to get out for her own sake.

I think Yes he probably does need advice

But i also think you need to leave him to it

Buy him a packet of condoms.

But really it's another case of moving in too quickly then wondering how to get rid when the partner turns out to be a freeloader. He can always say he'd like a relationship but doesn't want to live together.

Ooh, I don't know - that's a puzzler. I mean it's only been around for at least the last 350 years.

Or then again there's a whole system of law and practice behind it. And we don't pay ever increasing ground rent or have to pay the freeholder to extend our leases.

And how is the OP going to do that?

It's his business. He's an adult and it's for him to deal with.

I don’t think she’s a midwife. MW relates to minimum wage.

Just telling the @redwingparty to mind her own business isn't helpful.

As the parent of a 24 year old I would be concerned if DD was in a relationship like this.

While I wouldn't go sticking my oar in I would want to point out the legalities of what was happening so that she knew what could potentially happen. I would keep out of the relationship though.

Do what behind his back? I might find out what the legal situation is without mentioning it, so if the issue does come up, I can advise him. Not sure how I could explain it would be illegal to run a business from a home address without telling him.

Forget the legal advice. You need to advise your son that he is in an emotionally abusive relationship and only using him….

Hmm. I definitely wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut about a guest in my house refusing to get involved with at least some of the domestic stuff at Christmas and staying in bed most of the time.

I'd have to say something directly to her ... and then she'd no doubt start a moaning thread on Mumsnet saying her MIL is an evil unwelcoming witch. No such thing, but I wouldn't let such rudeness go unnoted!

It sound like OP's DS needs to grow a pair. The question is how can she support that without interfering? It's very difficult but I can understand OP's desire for her son not to walk into a shitshow without at least somehow warning him.

Sure, he's an adult, but can't you understand why the OP is concerned??

Aren't you concerned when someone you love makes a crazy decision that you think might hurt them?

Ha, the business is nails isn’t it?

FFS. She’ll be wanting him to bankroll a lavish wedding next. Hopefully the scales will fall from his eyes eventually. Sadly you’ll do more damage by telling him she’s the female equivalent of a cocklodger. You need to avoid letting her drive a wedge between you. Just let him be an adult and work it out for himself, and be there to support if he needs it. Good on him with his work ethic.