How bad was this behaviour in church?

[cavapoochris]

I'm trying to work it out. I went to a carol service on Christmas Eve. Church packed. I kept my kids with me. Mum A's kids were allowed to roam free. They were up by the choir, chatting and laughing. One child made animal noises during a solo. They were pulling faces and sort of wrestling about. One child was actually grabbed by one of the choir at one point to stop them messing about. Two of the kids climbed over the prayer rail and were playing behind the altar. You could see the choir were getting upset. Mum B is spitting tacks about the whole thing, saying it was totally disrespectful. I thought it was pretty awful, but I don't know what's "normal" for these carol services nowadays. When I was a kid in church, we sat in silence and it just wasn't even a question. I would say this was a fairly traditional service, usually very beautiful and tranquil. The choir work hard to rehearse. I suppose the AIBU is was Mum A reasonable to let the kids mess about?

The occasional toddler running into the sanctuary, with a mortified parent in hot pursuit is fine. But kids being allowed to mess around and not controlled it's not. There was a toddler of about 18 months running around shrieking during the homily at midnight mass in a cathedral in Christmas Eve. No one was particularly impressed. Ditto the shrieking during the veneration of the cross on Good Friday. A crying child is fine. But just being noisy for the sake of it isn't!

Child friendly services are not meant to accommodate the behaviour described. It’s not a get out of jail free card to behave however you wish and avoid renting your kids. Disgusting behaviour and disgusting parenting. They should be ashamed but imagine they are oblivious.

If I'd been the soloist, I would have stopped singing until the situation was brought under control. I am saying that as someone who has played an instrument in public in similar circumstances. Trust me that works, but of course it's a drastic move.

No. We dont. The parents can take responsibility and cope with their children.
I know the biskop would approve that the service wasn't ruined for 300 people.

And.
I have done this long enough to know the parents would be so very angry and upset with action taken but they would leave the church in running the minute I called it a day for their children. Been there. Done that.

The idea of trying to do anything with my 18 month old at midnight is giving me the shivers anyway!!

Our church is very inclusive, but still people would be expected to behave within the norms of society.

If she took them to a local panto would they be on the stage, the dressing rooms, down beside the band?

Sure they might make noise or even move about the room but there has to be respectful behaviour towards others. She should have taken them out if she couldn't enforce that.

Badly behaved
Ill mannered
Irreverent
Discourteous
Unacceptable
The mother demonstrated poor parenting which for the children led to all of the above. The rest of the above apply to the mother and the children.

As a former Church warden, and having run a church creche and Sunday school, I'd have taken the hands of the children and delivered them back to the mother with a hard Paddington stare. If they had started up again I'd have quietly invited them to go and play in the church hall.

All of the people involved in that service would have practiced and worked hard to provide it and should have been afforded some basic respect.

Erm I was raised Catholic and it was never a zoo. If your kid cried or couldn't sit still you went into the anteroom at the back.

That is laughable, I’ve had an extremely stressful year of major surgeries for my child and financial and personal stress and I still parent at all times. Mum A’s desire to not parent does not trump the parishioner’s right to hear and enjoy the service and the choir’s right for their hard work to be audible.

And to add to my last post, I think there are boundaries which should be respected and it's not good parenting to not even attempt to teach the kids to respect the performance and other people.

I mostly agree with you. It is important that children feel valued by the church. A participatory service helps a lot, and a place where they can play in the back or off to the side is a great idea.

When I was young there was a room with pews and a play area to one side of the altar, under the choir stalls and organ. Families with young DC were encouraged to sit there for Mass. It worked well.

But none of this is the same as children running wild, interrupting the soloist, etc, whilst Mum ignores them.

She might have been desperate for solice in the church.

Most likely our director of music would have had a fit and left with the choir if actions weren't taken. I am impressed they carried on. The choir most places spent hours not paid to sing at these services.

I wish the soloist would have stopped singing mid way through and refused to continue until the brats were under control.

She's definitely not a regular churchgoer, so it is possible, but unlikely.

Then she shouldn’t have brought her brats.

I never let my little ones roam around at church and luckily mine have all been able to sit through an hour long service quite well. However, in my experience not all toddlers are able to sit through an hour long service and if it is a family service I think it is OK to let them have a little roam.

Awful behaviour, mum A should have gathered children up and taken them out. They have absolutely no right to spoil it for people who have worked really hard to put on a good performance and also people who have come to enjoy the performance!
Simular happened at my ds nativity. One parent who had a child in the nativity fetched her toddler. She sat at the back and let toddler sit at front out of her sight. Toddler was disruptive, was told by another parent to stop hitting a child, carried on, was making lots of noise and putting off the young children who had worked hard to learn the nativity, eventually a member of staff who should have been supporting children in the nativity had to come over and remove said toddler. I don't think mum noticed 😳 i can't understand why people don't parent their children? Many times I've had to remove ds when we've gone to watch much older dd perform and we've moved to the back so he can play without spoiling things!

Did the vicar not get them from the altar area and ask parents to look after them? I can't imagine that just being allowed to happen?

Of course she wasn't and you know it.

That is absolutely not normal, it’s completely disrespectful and I’m surprised nothing was said, this wouldn’t be allowed in tne church I go to.

What a load of crock. Mental gymnastics to excuse crap parenting. Her ‘desperate for solice’ doesn’t trump everyone else. Are you mum a?

I agree it wasn't great parenting and wasn't acceptable but I'm wondering just how harsh mum b was to her. If she's at the end of her tether and was hoping to find comfort at the church to help her through the christmas season then it might not help to be too harsh on her.

I'm gobsmacked, that's terrible behaviour. Mum A needs to learn a bit of respect and learn to parent effectively.

No and I agree it was crap parenting but who knows her mental state that day. Do you know OP? Was she at the end of her limit?