How bad was this behaviour in church?

[cavapoochris]

I'm trying to work it out. I went to a carol service on Christmas Eve. Church packed. I kept my kids with me. Mum A's kids were allowed to roam free. They were up by the choir, chatting and laughing. One child made animal noises during a solo. They were pulling faces and sort of wrestling about. One child was actually grabbed by one of the choir at one point to stop them messing about. Two of the kids climbed over the prayer rail and were playing behind the altar. You could see the choir were getting upset. Mum B is spitting tacks about the whole thing, saying it was totally disrespectful. I thought it was pretty awful, but I don't know what's "normal" for these carol services nowadays. When I was a kid in church, we sat in silence and it just wasn't even a question. I would say this was a fairly traditional service, usually very beautiful and tranquil. The choir work hard to rehearse. I suppose the AIBU is was Mum A reasonable to let the kids mess about?

What's mum b got to do with it? Why can't you decide if messing with a choir is acceptable or not?

Actually, I say I would have done, but I probably would have needed to wait for an appropriate moment. We wear microphones, so it may have been more disruptive to do it during a choristers solo.
I am pretty certain I would ask the soloist if they wanted to sing again, though!

I went to a crib service on Xmas Eve which was obviously specifically aimed at children. Most of the kids were very well behaved. Two were not. The parent of child A was trying her best to keep her child entertained and reduce the disruption, picking him up, taking him to the back to look at the books/toys etc. The parent of child B didn’t give a shit and did bugger all but take endless pictures of her precious little angel ruining it for everyone. At the end I asked my DD if she enjoyed it and she said that she did but she did wish that child B hadn’t spoiled it by being naughty. I think what getting at is just because something is aimed at children doesn’t mean it’s a free for all for bad behaviour and parents still need to parent so they don’t ruin it for everyone else. Unfortunately, as in your case, some parents see child friendly activities as an excuse to let their kids run wild just because it’s child friendly with no care about anyone else’s enjoyment.

Appalling behaviour by children and parents. My 9&7 year olds are regular church attendees but we always take an activity bag with us. Then, particularly the younger one has something to keep him occupied if he's struggling to fully engage with the service.

Of course that's not OK. A bit of chatter or children moving around is normal and expected in a family services. Running around in a more formal service is not OK and parent A should have taken her children out if they weren't able to sit reasonably quietly.

Absolutely. My son is special needs and I've removed him from every church service at my daughters school towards the end when he's become a nuisance

I was on duty at Christmas Carols this year. I had ask those 3 children to leave the chuch with me and pulled out the toy box in the vestry and left my oldest daughter (think grown up, DBS, church safeguarded and NHS) in charge if parents did take responsibility. And dealt with it after the service.
We need some peace to work. It's not too much to ask for as a choir and music director. We don't have mic for the choir. We have worked hard to serve the congregation with a lovely night. Not serving the local kindergarden.
And we are a quite childfriendly church and staff.

Was it a Catholic Church? My DH was brought up Catholic, lapsed now, I went to a few masses with him and his parents and it was always like a bloody zoo.

I completely agree. DS was a cathedral chorister from age 9 until age 14, then sang in other church choirs. He's had his fair share of solos (including Once In Royal) and this sort of behaviour would have distressed him greatly.

This. Not that long ago it wouldn't have needed saying.
If a member of the choir is having to restrain your child and you're doing nothing to control said child, you're a shit parent. Children should be included and welcome in social events but they aren't the centre of the universe and shouldn't be allowed to spoil things for others.

Even if it was a family friendly service, making animal noises and deliberately disturbing people singing to the point where its upsetting people, is shit behaviour and not acceptable

Mum A was very rude. I have 3 kids (2 autistic with ADHD) and would not have allowed them to behave like that. We actually went to a church thing recently and the fun kids church show that most kids (including mine) sat and watched was ruined by a mum letting 2 toddlers run around screaming through it. You couldn't hear much of the service at all over 1 parents screaming kids.

Absolutely no way would I allow my child to roam at church. My nearly two old knows to sit nicely in church. Cripes there are some rubbish parents.

Mum A was rude and disrespectful of the hard work of the choir, and the rest of the congregation wanting to listen & sing, and hear some lovely music & time/space for quiet contemplation.

Oh, only because after the service (outside the church) Mum B told Mum A that it hadn't been acceptable behaviour and Mum A now cross. Feels like Mum B would be carried shoulder high by Mumsnet though!

I'm not sure if your response would have been how your post reads.

If so, I think you need to update your safeguarding policy.

No, church of england

I'm trying to work it out please can you expand on your thought process? The bit where you think this sort of behaviour might possibly be acceptable? I'm not getting the arguement for this being reasonable here.

I'd be thoroughly ashamed of that behaviour.

I am team mum b

I think it was unclear which way to vote - she asked was the mum (not I) being unreasonable but I think the question maybe should have been, is the OP being unreasonable to think the behaviour was unacceptable,

I think this is very balanced, I think it's important that churches move away from old expectations for children to be seen and not heard and to sit like little adults through a service that can be over their heads so they feel welcomed and that church is somewhere they feel valued and want to be. But as with anywhere parents need to be able to parent and help guide their children to learn when to listen and when to play.

I've no issue with kids roaming free during a church service within reason. Ds is usually happy to sit with me and move around in the pew but many children wouldn't and I don't think we should be forcing them to. I think it's great when churches have a little play area at the back for kids to use so parents can watch them, they can still be kids and noone misses out on the service.

Yes I did this too! I didn't know you could change your vote either.

I think Mum A probably felt judged for her rubbish parenting but perhaps she'd had a reallt bad day and was struggling to keep on top of it but really really needed to seek the lord so went anyway.

That's awful. Being a chorister isn't easy because you're usually singing parts (soprano, alto, tenor and bass) and you have to concentrate hard. I'm a chorister myself and children messing around near you is very offputting and can be stressful depending on the music. You never go behind the altar unless you're clergy or an altar server.