To baby my teenage sons?

[IamFineIamFINE]

Name changed for this thread but long term poster.

So I see all the posts about how the Mum is to blame for adult men not pulling their weight around the house because 'Mummy' has spoiled him...but is it really the Mum's fault?

Surely as a grown adult you are responsible for your own behaviour?

I see it as the world is a hard place, My sons are only late teens, but I do still do more than I should for this reason. I would have loved to have parents who helped me. That one place where you feel safe and know someone will look after you.

Admittedly even they say at times I need to stop doing everything for them. but I want to. I want to try and alleviate some of the stress that comes with both teenage years and adulthood. They are lovely boys but I do worry I'm setting them up to think other people should look after them.

But surely it should be different if it's their Mum? I certainly wouldn't expect any partner to do it and would definitely give them a dressing down if they tried to shirk their responsibilities in a relationship. This is something I've spoken about along with compromising and respect.

I guess my AIBU is, am I setting myself up to be a hated MIL?

YABU - yes YANBU - no

I am interested in peoples thoughts on it.

It's very hard to let go but you really need to. Your sons need to be able to function on their own without Mum or a partner. If they move out and share a house with others, their housemates aren't going to baby them. Do it gradually but do it, before you turn into a martyr mum.

Stop infantalising your boys because it makes you feel nice. They're even asking you not to.

Part of being a mother is teaching them life skills so they don't go out there a liability to themselves and future partners.

Watch a lioness feed her cubs, then teach them to hunt successfully - then let them go off with their survival skills to repeat the cycle.

Their father seems to understand this and is getting on with it. I agree they probably prefer being treated as and feeling like young men over being babied.

And their poor future wives. (Assumptions, I know). So many threads here from women exasperated by men helplessly saying they 'don't know how' to do this or that, or don't know where anything goes, or appear utterly oblivious of a loo that needs cleaning or dishes that need washing because the domestic appliance has always swooped in.

And will you be also swooping in when you think their partners aren't doing it as you would?

Cue the MIL issue posts here ...

Come on, OP. This is all about you, not about what they actually need.

Loving and supporting your teenage sons, being involved, available and caring is all fabulous.
Being their support human and teaching them that life comes with a permanent set of clean, folded clothes, cooked meals, and the washing up does itself - terrible idea.

My eldest also said he doesn't want to be a man child when I took his plate through for him.

Well, take the hint!

This. My mum was like this with me. It didn’t make me feel loved and protected, it made me feel incompetent, pathetic, and guilty.

Omg. Feel like you're my mother in law. My husband still struggles to remember to clear his own plate or notice that the laundry basket is overflowing because his Mum did everything for him.

You're 100% babying them, even the way you call them boys, if they're late teens like you said then that makes them ADULT MEN.

Please stop this

Tbh you sound like you’re going to be one of those MILs from hell in years to come. Your future DILs will be writing on mumsnet about their overbearing MIL.

I have had 3 long term relationships and all 3 have been brilliant at doing their share of housework etc without being asked. All 3 have the same in common, mums who believed in teaching their son to be as independent as possible and men who could iron, wash, cook, clean. I was grateful to all their mothers. I am still married to one one of the men.

Habits established in childhood are really hard for people to break in adulthood and that’s why responsible parents don’t just cave to their children’s preferences for a quite life or to be “nice”, they recognise they have a huge responsibility in helping their child establish good health and habits for a successful and happy life.

Would you think parents who weaned their children onto unlimited access to UPFs including sweets and fizzy drinks and who had a generously stocked “treat” cupboard their obese children could access at will were “kind”? Do you think when those children leave home they can switch off a habit like a switch because it’s their responsibility? What about screen time? Do you think that children who have eaten in front of tablets for 16 years and only fall asleep in front of screens can just decide to have good sleep hygiene the day they hit 18?

Your sons haven’t been allowed to develop the habits of cleaning up after themselves and maintaining a home. They don’t know the work involved and haven’t exercised that ability to make and maintain a mental list that means they (future children of theirs too) don’t miss football because they’ve no clean kit, run out of clean clothes, go hungry etc. etc. I wouldn’t expect teenagers to to an equal amount of this as their parents but they should be doing some and they should definitely be putting their own plate away, washing cups and glasses and not leaving them around the house.

Thank heavens their father takes a different view and they don’t seem ruined yet, but you need to listen to them and let them fully develop, not baby them for your own psychological reasons.

I literally had this conversation with my almost 13 year old yesterday who, as well as being the only boy, is also the youngest sibling.
He had said to his sister "if you get xx Christmas present, I'll give you some money. You know them better."
I jumped very hard on that saying he will not grow up to expect the women in his life to do the heavy lifting at Christmas.
Part of our job in loving our children is to prepare them to be adults.
Doing things is nice. I changed everyone's beds the other day because I wanted to do something for them. BUT can they do it themselves? And is it expected normally? Damned right it is.

I manage too many men children who expect me to be their replacement mummy and I will NOT raise one.
You owe it to your sons to let them be adults - and look after you too!
(Off to message said 12 year old to bring me a cuppa in bed....)

I think it’s time for you to stop, OP.

You might be verbally telling your sons that when they have a house partner, they’ll need to share house chores equally, and they might even follow through. But telling is not the same as showing. Actions speak louder than words.

By doing chores for them, you’re also teaching them (unintentionally) that a "good mom" takes care of her sons responsibilities indefinitely. This could set the expectation that when they become parents, their partners should do the same because that’s what "good moms" do, right?

You say you enjoy looking after teenage sons (=doing chores) , but do you really? Wouldn’t you enjoy to spend this time in something else more, like reading, taking a walk, pole dancing, whatever?

Show them that women have their own needs, interests, and lives beyond serving others. Taking care of yourself isn’t selfish. It’s necessary and an important example to set for your children.

@IamFineIamFINE
This isn’t how to love your children. This isn’t love. It’s a form of codependency.

Op, actions speak louder than words. You can tell them that it's going to be their responsibility to do all the things you do for them but you'll then set them out into a world where they have no idea how to do these things. It sounds like you're acting based on your own childhood trauma, and have gone too far the other way.
But you need to stop. It sounds like you're raising lovely boys who I have no doubt might try to pull their weight in a relationship / marriage but they'd have to work massively hard to do it as they just won't "see" the pile of laundry, plates on the side etc etc

I don’t have teens yet but I’m guessing you can love and nurture them and be their safe base without doing everything for them.

Be their shoulder to cry on, the person they trust the most, spoil them now and again and embarrass them with hugs and some of the little things they liked as kids and pretend they don’t now.

But you’d be doing them a disservice if you didn’t allow them to do basic life skills on their own like managing their money/budget, cooking, housework, travel, navigating relationships, and problem solving their own lives. You may also be causing problems for their future partner. Yes adults are responsible for their own decisions, but we are very much influenced by the blueprint our parents gave us whether we are aware of it or not. Do you really want to raise men who expect their partners to do everything including carrying the emotional load? Cos that’s what will happen.

You need to separate showing love and care from doing chores. You can still plan a special day out for them, cook a favourite meal, listen to their stresses, without doing all their donkey work.

I do think kids can grow up entitled if they have someone in the background constantly smoothing their way. I think kids need to experience frustrating and annoying little things, to be able to build up a tolerance for that and an ability to cope.

So they have asked you to do something, you refuse so all you care about is your needs not theirs?

It is not all about you, future MiL or not you don't really care about them anyway.

I've been thinking that when they are ready to leave I can at least help them prepare at that time?
Like a week-long crash course in Adulting? No, that won’t work. I don’t even see it happening.

A huge part of living independently is seeing what needs doing and doing it. Whether that’s paying a bill or putting the bins out at the right time (and get them in again), or remembering that the laundry isn’t done until the clothes are dry and put at least approximately away. The skills themselves are easy enough to learn, but it’s the mental load of building the jobs into your daily life that’s the hard bit and it’s that which so many men don’t seem to see as their job, and which drives so many women to despair. All teens need to start practising this planning process early on or it will be a huge shock when they leave home, or will become their partner’s problem which I imagine is the last thing you want. They need to be managers of their lives, not just wait to be told what to do or assume it will be done even if not by them.

english.emmaclit.com/2017/05/20/you-shouldve-asked/

You are setting them up to fail.
Do you seriously think that in several years time
when they meet the person they want to settle down with, live with, and possibly have children with, that what you have done will be of benefit to them? Do you not read the endless threads on here written by women who are at their wits ends because their oh is a lazy bastard?
Do you not read the replies saying the only solution is to ltb?
You will also be the hated mil.
Turning your sons into lazy, entitled men is not showing them love and does not make you a good parent.
Good parenting is about teaching your sons how to be resilient, decent, caring, hardworking, loyal, affectionate. How to put the needs of their wife (or husband) and children on an equal footing to their own, not in thinking they are top dog and it’s the wife’s job to pander to them.
You are making your sons unequipped for the dating market. They will be thrown back into the pond on a regular basis, unless they have other exceptional qualities such as; incredibly good looking and slim, incredibly wealthy. Even then, the wives are likely to still chuck them back into the pond, they will just stay with them a bit longer to benefit from a fit, rich man.

They have literally asked you to stop and you insist on carrying on

Yes your setting yourself up to he an overbearing mother in law

I lived in halls with a young man like this. I spent the first year of university teaching him life skills. By the end of his third year he was no contact with his mum as he viewed what she had done as abuse. He’s happily married now and is an equal partner and involved father. We talked recently about his experiences as a child and he said he felt constantly suffocated by his mum.
i see why you have done this but you need to change your thinking. My parents are neglectful and I was forced to be very independent from a young age (an example of this is I paid for my own school trips and sanitary products). With my children I’ve done a lot of reading and talking to friends to find out what is normal.

Absolutely this. You are not helping them in the long run, you aren’t even doing for them if the truth be told- you are doing it for you- which is an understandable impulse as it sounds like your childhood had it’s problems. But you are doing the opposite of what you intend, so you need to stop doing this and help them develop their independence because they won’t magically learn life skills and change behaviour the minute they move out of your home if you don’t. It is extremely naive to think otherwise.

Infantalising teens and young adults does not make them feel loved- there are lots of ways you can show them that and be a caring, supportive parent that don’t include coddling them. Instead, it teaches them helplessness, that they don’t need to think for themselves and does not build resilience or problem solving skills. It just makes them more vulnerable.

You need to teach them how to cope in the world- especially one which you rightly acknowledge isn’t always an easy one to navigate. If you insist on doing everything for them now, how do they learn to be independent young adults? Better they learn- and make mistakes- now, whilst they have your support than later on when you can’t always help them much because the world will (rightly) expect them to be more responsible and treats them as such.

How can you model to them that they do nothing whilst you sort everyone for them, then expect to bring up young men who know how and when to do things like household chores (far less feel that they should do them), for instance?

DD says I "baby" her brother too much and maybe I do. She was always so independent and touch averse that I actually enjoyed having a velco baby at times and at over 6ft with a beard (unless I nag him to shave) he still give great cuddles
BUT there are some things where I have firm lines such as tidying up after himself, manners, respect etc. I do his washing but he always asks if I could do his PE kit or school shirts or whatever and never assumes. If I don't cook for him he will happily sort himself out. I will always have his back though and defend him fiercely

My husband’s mother tries to help him even though he’s asked her not to.

What we do is keep her more in the dark about things in our lives than we would if she would simply respect our boundaries.

Learn to respect your son’s boundaries. What you think is harmless really isn’t.

@IamFineIamFINE
The vast majority of an adult's expectations are set up in childhood.

Words are very much less than actions.
Showing them "You don't need to do anything, I'll do it for you" will be the lesson that sticks WAY more than telling them "You need to be equal and pull your weight".

Habits are important - if they've never got into the habit of having to take the mental load to think about doing all these things and organising themselves around it (i.e. I've got work/school, and socialising, and I also need to have clean pants etc), then it won't come easily to them in adulthood, even if at some level they know they "should", they won't have the basis for it.
And if you look at the predominant complaint of women here, it's that some men never do the thinking & organising part - "He'll help if I tell him what to do but why do I have to take all the mental load"

So maybe try a reframe in your own mind - that it's kinder to send them out into the world knowing they're fully equipped to handle everything in it well, rather than believing it's kinder to baby them.

And maybe look at your own motivations - do you like doing these things because it makes you feel more needed as they grow up and naturally need you less? Perfectly understandable if so, but not necessarily helpful to them, or you, overall.

So, basically, OP, you don't give a shit that if anything you're harming their mental health and long-term coping.

It's pretty consistent, research-wise, that hovering over teenagers and teaching them that they are incapable of doing routine adult tasks is bad for their mental health, not good. (And what is the terrible, terrible stress that these late teens are under that means they can't possibly put their own plate in the dishwasher or they'll collapse?) Treating teens as capable of coping and giving them a chance to cope is how you support their mental health.