To baby my teenage sons?

[IamFineIamFINE]

Name changed for this thread but long term poster.

So I see all the posts about how the Mum is to blame for adult men not pulling their weight around the house because 'Mummy' has spoiled him...but is it really the Mum's fault?

Surely as a grown adult you are responsible for your own behaviour?

I see it as the world is a hard place, My sons are only late teens, but I do still do more than I should for this reason. I would have loved to have parents who helped me. That one place where you feel safe and know someone will look after you.

Admittedly even they say at times I need to stop doing everything for them. but I want to. I want to try and alleviate some of the stress that comes with both teenage years and adulthood. They are lovely boys but I do worry I'm setting them up to think other people should look after them.

But surely it should be different if it's their Mum? I certainly wouldn't expect any partner to do it and would definitely give them a dressing down if they tried to shirk their responsibilities in a relationship. This is something I've spoken about along with compromising and respect.

I guess my AIBU is, am I setting myself up to be a hated MIL?

YABU - yes YANBU - no

I am interested in peoples thoughts on it.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. If they seem like respectful, mature and independent boys in other areas I can't see what you're doing is causing harm. The fact they say "mum you don't have to" is a pretty good sign rather than just expecting it.

My MIL does a lot for her two sons because she enjoys her maternal role and sees them still as her children, I get it. And still my partner is the most helpful, independent person. He does more than his fair share, in fact double at the minute as I'm pregnant and we have a toddler so it's definitely not cut and dry. If they seem disrespectful or entitled or have a poor attitude to women in general that's different but it sounds like you have a good relationship with them so I doubt that.

Well, the answer is in your headline question. You’re babying them and you know this. That diminishes them

My teen sons can cook and do any domestic job in the house, they know how to take care of our pets etc. we run the house together.

This doesn't mean they aren't looked after or ever spoiled. I can make then their favourite meal, take them a drink and snacks to their room etc. I can do whatever they need, the difference is, they can return the favour for me, cook my favourite meal, take over if I'm ill.

Were a family, we look after our home together, but come exam time, they won't need to lift a finger either.

Surely that means they know how to act around others?

No, is the short answer to that.
The long version goes as follows: yes, they are polite, but politeness is a fundamental expectation, not a high bar, and not even a middling bar.

Your eldest is asking you very nicely to let him behave like a decent young man. You're ignoring him. You're not being kind here yourself, OP. You're modeling not listening to people when they tell you what they need. That is what your sons are seeing.

They're also seeing a woman whose entire identity seems to revolve around doing quite servile tasks for them. For starters, it's embarrassing for them. But more importantly, they're not seeing a woman whose life is full of her own projects that are not related to them.
Will they shy away from such a woman when they're looking for a life partner?
What comfort zone are you creating for them?
What gendered dynamic of family life are you presenting to them?
What bedrock unexamined assumptions are you instilling in them? What you say is not as important as what you do.

Above all, what approach to relationship are you presenting to them? There's more to relationships than filling physical needs.

What needs of your own are you filling here, to the detriment of your sons?

What effect does ignoring their emotional needs have on them?
Does it tie them to you in a debt of gratitude? Is that what you're looking for here?
Does it make them feel unable to be direct with you when expressing their needs? Are they looking after your feelings instead of getting up and bringing their own plates to the kitchen or sorting out their own laundry? If so, who is the parent here?

How would your sons feel if they had a mum who took up 5k running or joined an evening pottery class or a local choir and this meant they would have to cook, clean up, and do their own ironing two or three evenings a week? How comfortable would you feel putting your name down for activities and telling them your news?

You seem to associate serviliry with maintaining a relationship. Is there an idea in your head that keeping them fairly helpless in the domestic sphere will mean your hope that they would return home after a failed relationship will become a prophecy? I'm not saying you're planning for their relationships to end in painful circumstances, but you're not planning for things to work out swimmingly for them as equal partners in running a home either. Is there a teeny tiny little part of you that would feel a bit jealous of any women they chose as a girlfriend or partner? Would you feel rejected, deep down?

A very important consideration here that you may not have thought about is the effect of domestic incompetence on the self esteem of teens in every other area of their lives. Academics, career, willingness to apply for challenging roles, ability to negotiate a salary - ambition and drive in general can be scuttled by being treated as a helpless child long after teens cease to be children. Resilience is another important victim of mollycoddling. Your hope that they would return to you and not rely on their own gumption if they had a big setback is concerning.

Childhood neglect has huge ramifications here. Did you absorb a message that you weren't valued or valuable in your own right? That dreams or aspirations of yours weren't important? That physical care was the only important part of a parent-child relationship? Did you feel you had to work hard for love or attention?

Probably one of the many male students who accosts a random girl in the laundry and expects them to spend time teaching him how to do his washing. After the first time I just started saying I didn’t know how to (while doing my own).

Being there fir them
Does not mean doing everything like a domestic slave
Go out for one evening a week let them make pasta
Make them put washing on etc
Grow them into independent humans

Your setting them up for failure.
From around 11/12 then should have been given responsibilities appropriate for their are. As they got older more tasks and responsibilities.
My parents did this with us and I am thankful!!! I was independent and aoeting out my own things from age 18/19 I organised everything for uni. I took initiative to avoid debt and calculated what was needed and woried for 2 years. No holidays until I finished uni. I purchased app my own electronics and my first car and paid for alp my lessons. I came out of university very mature with no debt and ready for adulating.
I would never baby my sons when they get to that age. Hard work starts early as the world is a cruel place and you need to be able to adapt and be responsible.

OP i am exactly the same as you and wont change. I love my boys and will do anything and everything for them. I still cook my 18yr a lunch for work everyday and do the same for my 17yr old when he works at the weekend.

When im not here, they sort themselves out, but while i'll still have them at home i am more than happy to do it. They are so grateful and know they are spoiled.

@IamFineIamFINE

It's possible to look after your grown up children and make a fuss without infantalising them.
I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to my son coming home from uni for Christmas in 2 weeks. I'll make a huge fuss of him, get his room ready, cook him his favorite dinner. I might even clear the plates and I'll do the washing up. But he will make me a cup of tea before he goes to bed, put the milk put, and next day sort his own washing and ask if there is anything I need help with. He'll help with the shopping, heavy stuff down the allotment and do a bit of baby sitting for me.
I will add that he has autism and is adopted. He was grossly neglected in his first 4 years so my instinct is to protect and care for him. But I'll be doing him no favours if I don't teach him to look after himself. He is only 20 so still learning but is sorting stuff put for himself but he knows I'm here if he needs advice.
It's about balance and recognising that your relationship needs to shift to a more adult footing.

And my boys are the same, will say "oh mum, i can do that" "leave it, i'll do it" "i'll buy lunch' etc. But while i can support them with house/life boring crap ii always will.

They have decades ahead of them where they'll be responsible for doing it.

I'm confident in knowing that my boys are happy and supported and that ive given them the skills to support themselves and a partner when they need to.

Helping your sons now they’re teenagers looks different to when they were five. Presumably at some point you realised they could feed themselves without aeroplane spoons & wipe their own backsides? This is the next step, and all part of them growing up.

Also, they are becoming young men. Perhaps you are making them feel inferior in not allowing them to pull their weight a little more. I note you said you’re separated from their dad - perhaps round their dads they feel like men, whilst you leave them feeling like boys.

You can still cook their dinner, treat them, and make kind gestures to help them, but let them breath. Let them learn independence in the safety of your home. Your future SIL/DIL will thank you that they can load a dishwasher & wash their laundry in colour coordinated loads.🤣

Otherwise you’ll be posting on here to say they want to move in with their dad and you’ve no idea why, you do everything for them, what have you done wrong? Etc. etc

Greaaaaay two more man babies set out in the wild for some poor woman to discover they are ultimately frigging useless and selfish burdens

I can see that you want to mother them, but part of that is ensuring they have skills for life. Maybe- together - come up with a plan e.g. one evening a week they are each responsible for making everyone dinner. Consider all the other chores that need doing: bins, cleaning, laundry etc and come up with a plan for sharing the load a little

I think part of being a parent is teaching your DC to cope in the real world when the time comes.
I do and will always be there to help my DC but that's not the same as doing everything for them.
They need to learn how to cook, clean, do laundry etc and how to organise themselves and take responsibility for their own stuff.
So yes it is the mum (and Dad's) fault if they raise useless sons.

I had a Mother who wouldn’t let us do stuff ourselves. It was a nightmare when I moved out. I didn’t know how to do anything. What should have been a good time was hard because I had to learn everything from scratch.

You are actually being extremely selfish by not teaching them anything and setting them up to fail.

How will they become grown ups who are responsible for their own behaviour, as you say, if they never have to do anything as adolescents? Grown-up behaviour won’t just fall out if the sky.

I didn't read them all so probably repeating.

I totally understand that you had a rough time as a teenager. But part of our job as parents is to aim to leave the generational trauma in the right generation and not drag it into the next. Knowing 'they always have a place to go' and knowing 'they can always be looked after' are not the same thing. The first is showing a child your love and making sure they have a safety net, but 'looking after' grown adults without reciprocity is setting them up for a lifetime of unhappiness. They will never find this level of smothering anywhere else and they will be terrible partners.

I love my kids and look after them but there is an end date. And a limit. They are 8/12 and they help around the house and take care of their own needs to an appropriate extent and by the time they're ready for adult life they can go and thrive safely and securely. And I'll always be here if they need me!

Op don’t make the same mistakes as me. I have a 21 year old ds and a 13 year old dd. He was an only child for 8 years and was spoilt rotten and I’ve mollycoddled him ( mostly without realising ) because he’s autistic and struggles with executive functioning etc and has anxiety and ocd. It has been the worst thing I could have done to help him because when he went away to university he couldn’t do a thing and massively struggled. I ended up there more times than I could count cleaning his en-suite and sorting his stuff out and then I took a step back and it all fell apart. He lasted 6 months.

I feel terrible guilt over how I’ve handled his independence, his best friend is totally different and has been cooking for himself for years and can use a washing machine and can lay wooden floors/paint/you get the picture. His mum made him learn these things and they’re like chalk and cheese.

my dd has been taught to cook from as soon as she showed interest and loves to help out around the house. I’ve seen what happens when you do too much and it backfires. I’m trying so hard with him now to make so much more independent, for him more than anyone.

Just to add- he was travelling all over the country to watch his beloved football team at away games from the age of 16, sometimes on his own ( on a club coach ) and has been on more holidays with his friends than I can remember, it’s just at home there is a problem as I’ve always done everything for him.

Some of my favourite people are teenage boys. They can be incredibly sweet and kind.

I think it’s fine to do lots of things for them. But let them do some things for you too. It will make them feel good about themselves, and it’s good for you too. It’s great that they’re aware of the dynamics: that’s really promising.

(From the mother of a 19 year old who is in my phone contacts as ‘precious baby boy’ and also makes my tea every Saturday.)

But if you're not around things will go full circle. If by then they've come to expect it to be done for them they won't listen. Why do you feel love can only be shown by encouraging children to be helpless and lazy? Love is teaching and preparing for a full life and independence.

God I hate cryptic examples is it so unique he's the only man who does it? .....he wouldn't be renovating the house "for you" unless he didn't live in it .....and most skills can be learned.
Im imagining him coming home and going out to harvest the garden as your self sufficient and him doing farming all night whilst you luxuriate on the sofa as he does so much more than you.

I know you say you would take your son's in for being a useless partner. But why would you set them up for that to happen?
Why would you want them to never fly the nest or be kicked out from the family they created all because they are incapable of being a functioning adult.

My DHs mum refused to allow her kids to do anything. She was devastated when DH moved out. Her older child 40s lives like a teenager still at home. My DH and I had a very rocky start and I mothered him pretty much the whole way. It was a much harder and rockier start than it needed to be.

I want my kid to flourish in life so I am helping teach them all I know, so when it is time for them to fly they will succeed.

From what you clearly felt abandoned and did not feel loved by your parents (and thats absoloutly nothing to do with being expected to act like an adult at adult age, I assume if you dig deeper theres probably some other cause you are misappropriating onto 'flying the nest') and as such you have filled the void with your love for your children.

Loving your children is great but part of it is letting them develop freedom and relationships away from you, babying them is a toxic way to block that.

This childhood issues seemingly has led you to become quite severely co-dependant on your children. That is not healthy especially as the children want to grow normally so it isn't reciprocated but rather burdensome.

I worry you will not cope once they fly the nest and I would serious suggest a bit of therapy to get down to the route cause of you abandonment issue and I would strongly recommend you either work on your ability to be alone or start looking for another relationship to pour your love into (romantic or even a pet) so that when you boys do fly you already have something else in place to distract that void you will feel.

Your children will always love you even as they move on to relationships and families of their own but the tighter you hold the MORE they will pull away and distance and it could negatively affect their happiness. Just because they grow does not mean they will abandon you just that your relationship is changing, they will always still be your children just not your 'babies'.

You sound like a lovely, caring Mum- but this can be a slippery slope. An ex I was with (when we were both mid 20s) was completely incompetent in all household tasks and it was so off putting. And in some of the examples you use like putting a wash on or being able to cook a simple meal for himself. Please teach them these basic life skills