Lunch with another woman

[Lyingisnotok]

NC for this.

My partner has a female friend. She has a long term partner. DP and her have known each other a couple of years. We have been in a relationship for over a year and are moving in together.

During the first few months of our relationship I didn’t meet her but was fine with them being friends. They went on a pre booked holiday together (twin room). He checked if it was ok for him to go and I was fine with it. No worries at all. Honestly trust him and felt genuinely fine about it.

A couple of months ago I finally met her, along with her partner and few others. She flirted with my DP a lot (ridiculous hair twirling, giggling, dominated his time - if you had looked in without knowing us all you’d assume they were together).

She largely ignored me. Made no effort at all. She responded to my attempts at conversation with her but then shut them down. Her partner and I exchanged a couple of glances as if to say ‘are you ok with this?’.

After that I calmly asked DP if he could only meet her when me and her partner are there as it felt uncomfortable for me the thought of her flirting with him without me there. I trust him not to take it anywhere but it just felt uncomfortable. He was a bit annoyed thinking I didn’t trust him but did agree as he could see my view.

I then found out recently he’d met her for lunch alone. I found out because he’d let something slip and so I asked and he answered. He wouldn’t lie directly but has lied through omission I think.

I was upset. He got cross. He doesn’t think I should make this request of him, he doesn’t think he’s done anything wrong.

AIBU?

After that I calmly asked DP if he could only meet her when me and her partner are there as it felt uncomfortable for me the thought of her flirting with him without me there. I trust him not to take it anywhere but it just felt uncomfortable. He was a bit annoyed thinking I didn’t trust him but did agree as he could see my view.

It’s obvious you don’t trust him. That’s what the “I’m uncomfortable” means.
Yes he agreed, but you didn’t exactly give him a choice and I think it’s OTT to demand they conduct their friendship under the watchful eye of each others partners. This isn’t Afghanistan you know, it isn’t haram for an unmarried man and woman to be friends with no chaperones lurking over them.

His relationship with her is more important to him than his relationship with you.

I would dump and move on.

Slight derail, but, just out of interest, what kind of cheese is it?

OP, please ignore the ridiculous comments about Saudi 🙄

Most people in a relationship don't have flirty friendships with people of the opposite sex who are unfriendly to their partner. There's a reason for this, it's called fidelity and respect.

The fact your DH was OK with her being rude to you is enough of a red flag. I'd cool a friendship with anyone, man or woman, who was rude to my DH. The fact he's ok with going behind your back to meet her means you can't trust him and he doesn't care about your feelings. Honestly, time to throw him back.

This is the problem having no backbone causes.

If he thought you're request was unreasonable, he should have made it clear you won't dictate the terms of his friendship, and he will continue to see her as and when. I have no respect for liars.

In any case, you now know where he stands on this matter amd that he's a liar, so the rest is up to you.

Completely agree.

He’s both selfish and spineless.

Plenty of people will come on here and try to shame you for expecting better op, but most of the time that’s because they are defensive about wanting to be selfish in their own relationships.

I suppose that’s what I’m talking about when I say anyone can throw anyone back for whatever reason. I simply wouldn’t enter into a relationship with someone who wanted me to alter a key element of my life, like my pre-existing friendships. Them being insecure and demanding concessions wouldn’t be a reason for me to change my behaviour, but to end the relationship.

I mean, obviously I know nothing about this friendship — if the OP only met her boyfriend’s friend a couple of months ago when they’ve been together over a year, perhaps it’s not a very close or important friendship anyway?

One other thing came to mind. If the OP’s boyfriend had lots of different short-term girlfriends before her, it may be that she just got tired of meeting them, getting to know them and investing in them, and then never seeing them again. I know it’s happened with one friend of mine.

Or another uncomfortable truth about meeting someone’s new girlfriend/boyfriend is that you know far more about them than the new person does. I have a friend of whom I’m very fond, and whom I’ve known through a marriage and two longish relationships, one that involved living together. Three very nice women. But I see a pattern in each relationship. At the start he’s animated, passionate, dashing off on romantic weekends, but he can’t keep it up. Within a year, he’s reverted to being someone whose default mode is pretending to be terribly busy at work and spending 12 hours a day out of the house, when in fact he’s scrolling around on the internet and pottering.

It’s actually really sad, watching this dawn on his partners. Yet I can’t tell them.

pre booked holiday - well that’s ok then, you had better go, no no I’m not jealous, concerned, I look puzzzled, do I? no I’ll be fine, known her a long time? o, ok, her partner is cool with this too? o, ok, well have a lovely time, I’ve always wanted to visit
Barcelona myself, thought I mentioned this a few times, o, ok, I didn’t realise you hadn’t heard. Well just in case, I should know the hotel, you can’t remember, o, ok.

I think your relationship is doomed, sorry OP. You have no right to tell him who he can and can’t see. She was flirting with him but he was oblivious, he didn’t do anything wrong, but you clearly don’t trust him. Then he sneaked to meet her behind your back because he was scared of your reaction. And probably because he thought you shouldn’t be controlling who he sees, which he’s right about but went about it the wrong way. He should never have agreed to your demands, that was weakness on his part and that was his lie.

So you don’t trust him, and he is weak and has lied. Doomed I say.

They shared a twin room did they? I wonder how many women on here would be genuinely happy about their DH/partner doing that with an attractive young woman. You've got every reason to feel threatened OP and if other posters were more honest and stopped trying to look so bloody cool, so would they. OP, your partner doesn't give two shits about your feelings, only his (and his dick) come first.

Sharing a room might be fine if they had a genuinely platonic, relaxed friendship.

But in the context of her flirting with him, the dynamic of sharing a room must have been plain weird.

I don’t think expecting your partner to essentially ask permission to have lunch with a friend is reasonable behaviour.

You’re perfectly entitled to have whatever boundaries you choose, but boundaries are what you will or will not tolerate - they don’t allow you to control the other person. You can decide you don’t want to be in a relationship with someone who does XYZ, but you can’t forbid them to do XYZ.

I am bisexual so the “risk” is the same whether I have a male or female friend.

According to the attitude reflected in some posts, I can’t see any friends without a chaperone otherwise I’m liable to fuck them.

If that makes me “cool” then so be it. I just can’t comprehend this hetero-normative jealous possessiveness that means a partner can’t see friends of the opposite sex without a chaperone. It sounds positively oppressive, controlling and distrustful.

Sorry but in my experience hetro men don't have "genuine" platonic friendships. They always want a shag at the end of the tunnel, even if they don't act on it. I mean, would you really want your DH going off on holiday and sharing a bedroom with another similarly aged and unrelated woman? If you would, you are in a very small minority and for a very good reason.

That’s not what anyone is saying at all.

If you interact in a normal platonic way with your friend and the friend is able to bring themselves to be civil and polite to your partner, you should feel free to be friends with whomsoever you choose.

It’s when you are actively flirting, or the friend is obviously flirting with you, and your partner is left on the sidelines that a boundary is crossed. It’s the behaviour at issue, nothing to do with hetero-normative whatsoever.

My then boyfriend had a female friend who I’d never met, it was ok, then one day when he was going out again, I said the next time they met, I’d like to come along and meet her too ( we lived together in a flat )

He decided not to see her again

Spoke volumes to me.

I still wouldn't want my husband sharing a bedroom with another woman. I mean, if that's weird and controlling then tough shit.

I used to be one of those women who would say you can't control him, it's all about trust, etc etc...

But my husband had a female friend who did try it on with him, and to be honest I had a gut feeling about her. So I would say your intuition about her is probably right. Ultimately it does still come down to if you can trust him, but I'd be letting him know that secret meet ups and secret text messages count as a betrayal of trust for you.

You need to look at this situation divested of emotion for a moment:

1. You asked him to not be alone with her - you say you trust him, you clearly don't or you wouldn't have to say it would you?
2. He agreed and then met her for lunch - he deceived you, that's awful
3. He doubtless didn't tell you the truth because you put a condition on him that he couldn't live up to, despite promising you in the moment

Some people have friends of the same sex, some people have flirty friends of the same sex, but it doesn't mean they want to get into one another's pants. The way you have explained it I find it odd that you sat through a meal with her and her partner just exchanging glances not doing anything? You're adults aren't you? You can talk about things? At the time and not after the event to try and restrict your partner from friendships that predate you.

I think it IS controlling to tell people who they can spend time with and how this should happen (i.e. not alone) also presumably if they wanted to be with one another they have had countless opportunities to pursue a relationship in the past if they wanted to.

I have mainly male friends and I don't fancy a single one of them, nor have tried anything with them in the past. So to the PP who said hetero men don't have genuine platonic friendships you couldn't be more wrong and sorry that your experience has led you to that assumption, I wish your world was broader.

You need to talk to him about the lying and you need to talk to him about the flirtation. Get a clear understanding between the both of you, because as I said at the beginning, you don't trust him, if you did this wouldn't worry you at all.

Personally no I wouldn’t. It’s nothing either DH or I would suggest.

But I can accept there might be friendships where this might be acceptable to the partners involved.

However when there is a dynamic of flirtation it’s totally inappropriate and disrespectful to the op’s relationship .

There isn’t one “normal platonic” way. Everyone has their own boundaries. The OP’s partner was oblivious to what the OP perceived as “flirting” which seemed to consist of having a laugh and enjoying his company.

I think it has a lot to do with hetero-norms especially given the comments saying no way should two opposite sex friends ever go on holiday together or share a twin hotel room leaving their partners at home in addition to comments that are generally and puritanically disbelieving that such friendships can be nonsexual.

speaking of,
“ginasevern · Today 10:45
Sorry but in my experience hetro men don't have "genuine" platonic friendships. They always want a shag at the end of the tunnel, even if they don't act on it. I mean, would you really want your DH going off on holiday and sharing a bedroom with another similarly aged and unrelated woman? If you would, you are in a very small minority and for a very good reason.”

I don’t believe it can never be non-sexual. Of course it can. There are men I would not shag to save myself.

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of this friendship, what you have here is a man whose approach to difficult situations is to promise one thing then secretly do another.

Having presumably been an adult for some time, he has not learned the backbone or integrity to take the harder, but honourable, route of having the difficult conversation and risking conflict over the easy, dishonest route. That is now a character trait and it will crop up in all sorts of ways if you stay with him. I couldn't respect a man like that.

He's not trustworthy. He's shown he'll prioritise his wants over doing the right thing by you. On that basis I've no idea why you'd trust him not to cheat (in general) as well, to be honest.

He also clearly has no issue with other people disrespecting you in front of him. He's lacking the fundamentals for offering you a happy relationship, in my view!

Totally this.

And even if nothing would happen, if you respect your partner and value your relationship you keep some boundaries

Yup. Volumes.