To say something now or leave it to see if I hear from the school - DD misgendered a teacher

[EvilsElsasPetSnowman]

DD is 11 in year 7. She had a non-binary teacher who she has to refer to as ‘Mx Surname’ (pronounced Mix). When she started she said “It’s obvious she’s a woman as she has boobs and a woman’s voice” but that they were told they must only refer to her as Mx. She thought it was a load of nonsense (as do I) but I told her that it’s best not to ruffle feathers and just go along with it because I don’t want her to be in trouble but I thought I’d have to keep a beady eye out for any problems.

On Friday afternoon she came back from school panicking because she accidentally called this teacher Miss when doing the register. They have to say “Here Mx” when their names are called and she said “Here Miss”. The teacher said “Really DDName, I have been your teacher for 12 weeks now, you know my pronouns!” And moved on. DD said she (DD) went bright red and felt embarrassed.

I have gone back and forth over the weekend, I’m really torn between saying something and leaving it because I don’t want DD to be a target because I’ve pissed a teacher off, or just be labelled a horrible bigot (let’s face it school will not see my POV). It’s a subject she absolutely adores as well so I don’t want her to have any backlash because she struggles with certain subjects and so lives for the few she enjoys including this one.

So Im wondering if I should email the school saying children should not be shamed for “misgendering”, this person is an adult and should be a bit more resilient and not expect children to put aide their subconscious and shirk reality, or should I wait to see if there’s any backlash before doing that? Obviously if there is I’ll defend DD to the hilt but I am thinking about getting ahead of the game as the whole thing really pisses me off.

YABU = say something now
YANBU = wait it out

Funnily enough my headmaster in my high school years had a Doctor title. That was a doctorate of science rather than the medical type.

Nothing wrong with that. He happened to be male. My sister is a medical doctor, one of the many women with a medical doctorate.

None of this has one iota to do with a person who identifies as non binary imposing a gendered honorific, unnecessarily, on children in a school setting.

People’, the royal we plucked out of thin air device.

It's an old tactic.

Older than the pyramids, I'd imagine.

Would it be an issue for you if the teacher was not non-binary and simply preferred to use a non-gendered title, as some do?

I have no issue whatsoever with the teacher's personal beliefs. I've said so many times on the thread.

The teacher is perfectly entitled to believe themselves to be non-binary. Why not? We can all think what we like about ourselves.

The problem with this teacher is the insistence that the children validate that identity unnecessarily.

The issue in the OP is the calling of the register. In this instance the children are required to respond 'Yes Mix' on hearing their name called. This is problematic because it goes against natural language but also may go against perfectly legitimate GC beliefs. That humans only have 2 sexes.

It is entirely avoidable because the aim of taking a school register can be achieved without compelling children to use a gendered honorific at all. When the hame is called they could just respond 'here' or 'present'.

So this is all about the child validating the gender beliefs of the teacher and that has no place in a school setting.

This has to be sarcasm.

Addressing a doctor as Mrs is extremely disrespectful when she has earned her title through hard work and qualification! What on earth does being a doctor have to do with pretending she's not a woman?

Sorry I think I misread your question. But again of course not.

I assume if they use a non gendered titled they wouldn't pull a student up for making a mistake and probably would also be quite happy with my suggestion of a 'here' or 'present' response to the register.

It is the teacher that is making this the issue.

I think you have misread Artful Bee.

And you now seem to be accepting that being non binary is 'pretending' that you are not a woman.

What an own goal.

When I started reading threads on this subject I didn't know much about it at all. My immediate response back then would have been "Your DD needs to use Mx. It's polite and courteous. What harm can it do?"
I'd also have been interested in some more information about what gender is, how it's different from sex, what makes one a certain gender if its not their sex?
Now having read a LOT of these threads. I know the answer to my first question while remaining not a wit wiser as to the second. This is because the posters who feel there is harm explain. They give reasons and back them with evidence. Their arguments are compelling.
Meanwhile, the posters who support genderism call people bigots, transphobes, dinosaurs, pearl clutchers, creepy. They shame them for their age, their alleged right wing policies and 'obsession' with genitals. They say things are so, because they say so. If we ask questions we are told we are stupid and they 'can't help us', and to look it up. No explanations, no information, just instruction to believe and comply.
Clearly in these debates neither side with strongly held beliefs is going to convince the other. But there are other people here reading and learning and forming opinions and one side is doing a whole lot better job of swaying opinion than the other.

I got pulled up in school for answering "present", when the teacher preferred "yes Mrs Jones". Various teachers have their own preferred responses. I don't see an issue with this teacher having their own preference, too.

Ok well that's up to you.

I do see an issue with it because it's compelling a response which might be problematic for the child because it's not natural language or because it doesn't align with reasonable GC beliefs with the sole aim of 'propping' the gendered identity of the teacher.

In other political areas teachers are required to refrain from imposing their political beliefs on students. This is no different.

The school should be clamping down on the imposition of ideology and this parent hopefully by now has complained.

It is the thin end of the wedge where we allow teachers to impart political/ ideological beliefs on children. That is not what they are being paid to do. They are there to teach.

It's a perfectly valid analogy, as it is not "just opinion when it comes to non white immigrants.
Racism should never "just be a matter of opinion" which it is just that racism, if you're discriminating against people just because of their race/colour of their skin in a way you wouldn't if the immigrant person was white.

Yabu. I can’t believe you are considering contacting the school about such a non-event!

You will make yourself look like a crazy.

I most commonly used to see Mx used by feminists who felt that genderless titles promoted gender equality. Presumably you'd be similarly up in arms if the teacher chose to use Mx as their legal title for that reason? After all, belief in gender equality is ideological.

So glad I was 11 years old 39 years ago......

This teacher has told the students that they identify as non binary so what you are asking is entirely irrelevant.

Ms has been used for decades to obscure marital status, i very much doubt that a woman who choses to use Ms would publicly castigate a child for calling her Miss by mistake.

Such scolding seems to be very much the actions of gender activists.

Who still have no place in schools.

Don't you agree with that? Or are you too busy engaging in whataboutry to try to obscure the reality of the fact that this teacher is imposing ideology on children in a school setting to actually engage with the point of this thread?

No, I don't agree with you. I think people can use whatever title they are legally entitled to use, for whatever reason, and correct someone who misaddresses them. Whether or not they also happen to be non-binary is not relevant to me.

I haven't heard it either. Does it mean a mix of genders?

Good then that's your view point. I respect your right to hold it.

Presumably you will do the same for the many people who disagree and see it as no different from a teacher using an education setting to advance other political / ideological viewpoints.

I do think that this will, in time, be treated as over reach and teachers will not be allowed to use their teaching roles to advance their beliefs, in the same way as any other non necessary political/ ideological belief. Especially where it IS entirely unnecessary and the ONLY reason the teacher requires the child to use Mix is to validate their own world view.

This teacher identifies as non binary which I understand means that they don't think that they are either male or female.

Of course it’s an opinion. A hateful, racist opinion which is rightly, in my opinion, despised by decent people, but it is still an opinion which some people hold. You can’t say something is not an opinion just because you (rightly, in my opinion) disagree with it.

Presumably you will do the same for the many people who disagree and see it as no different from a teacher using an education setting to advance other political / ideological viewpoints.
No, why would I agree with that? I don't think somebody using Mx as their legal title is advancing an ideological viewpoint to any greater extent than someone who uses "Ms" or whatever else.

Obviously people can hold whatever beliefs they like, but I don't have to respect the belief or think it valid.

The debate about “Ms” is irrelevant because all female teachers are called “Miss”, whether their title is Miss, Mrs or Ms. Noone answers the register “Yes Mrs”.

This teacher is using the register as a device to force her political beliefs on children and that’s not acceptable.

But they might answer "Yes, Mrs X" - as we had to for some teachers. I expect we'd have been corrected if we said "Miss X" instead.

Well they are when they tell the pupils they are non binary and publicly castigate them for getting words wrong.

Safeguarding pupils should be paramount. Requiring pupils to say words that do not match the sex of teachers who say they follow an ideology that harms children and women has no place in school.

You and I are never going to agree.

I think child safeguarding in a school setting trumps the personal gender feels of an adult teacher and you do not.

And that's OK, you are entitled to your personal beliefs and so am I.