To say something now or leave it to see if I hear from the school - DD misgendered a teacher

[EvilsElsasPetSnowman]

DD is 11 in year 7. She had a non-binary teacher who she has to refer to as ‘Mx Surname’ (pronounced Mix). When she started she said “It’s obvious she’s a woman as she has boobs and a woman’s voice” but that they were told they must only refer to her as Mx. She thought it was a load of nonsense (as do I) but I told her that it’s best not to ruffle feathers and just go along with it because I don’t want her to be in trouble but I thought I’d have to keep a beady eye out for any problems.

On Friday afternoon she came back from school panicking because she accidentally called this teacher Miss when doing the register. They have to say “Here Mx” when their names are called and she said “Here Miss”. The teacher said “Really DDName, I have been your teacher for 12 weeks now, you know my pronouns!” And moved on. DD said she (DD) went bright red and felt embarrassed.

I have gone back and forth over the weekend, I’m really torn between saying something and leaving it because I don’t want DD to be a target because I’ve pissed a teacher off, or just be labelled a horrible bigot (let’s face it school will not see my POV). It’s a subject she absolutely adores as well so I don’t want her to have any backlash because she struggles with certain subjects and so lives for the few she enjoys including this one.

So Im wondering if I should email the school saying children should not be shamed for “misgendering”, this person is an adult and should be a bit more resilient and not expect children to put aide their subconscious and shirk reality, or should I wait to see if there’s any backlash before doing that? Obviously if there is I’ll defend DD to the hilt but I am thinking about getting ahead of the game as the whole thing really pisses me off.

YABU = say something now
YANBU = wait it out

I haven't said non-binary doesn't exist, I think it must because so many claim to be non binary and those people definitely do exist. You must be confusing me with another poster. What I am asking for and you have failed to do is provide a decent working defintion of what non-binary actually is.

Please find where I have called a trans woman a violent criminal, I haven't. Stop making things up. I have spoken about the fact that males being allowed to enter female single sex spaces resulting in women and children being sexually assaulted and raped, this is factually correct. Unless you are now denying the existence of the likes of Isla Bryson or Karen White or Katy Dolotowski. They say they are trans women, given that trans status is based entirely on self declaration then either they there are trans women who ARE violent criminals or these males are lying. How do I know? That's why I find it better to call them male bad actors. Do you think they are trans women?

And no I'm not talking about breaking doors down, you are they hyperbolic one on this thread not me. I'm talking about a breach of the social contract whereby males get unfettered access. Surely you can't deny this has resulted in ACTUAL harm to women and children?

And by the way I still don't know why if sex and gender is different, people of the male sex are entering (see what I did there) women's single sex spaces. I see that as an act of an aggression. They, seemingly, have no regard to the safety and dignity of the females who need those spaces.

"They are dressing as women" - what do "women" dress like, on an average day??

Are women a homogenous mass? The Borg? Stepford Wives?

How does women's dress differ from males, for the majority of people, on an everyday, casual basis?

Anyway "renaming themselves, dress as women and asking nicely" to enter single sex spaces (not for their sex). .....

But you're still a man - whether you dress as a woman (whatever that means) and whether you rename yourself to a female name, or how "nicely" you ask ..... You're still a man, trying to get access to a single sex space for a sex that's not your sex.

So why exactly do you think they should get access?

And no @SerenePeach I won't change my mind.

That is either about the need for children to be safeguarded at school and the danger of children being asked to lie about reality in that regard.

Or about the fact that the destruction of women's single sex spaces due to the demands of a group of trans 'right's' activists, harms women and girls. We have plenty of evidence of the harms.

Or about the fact that it is insidious that vulnerable, often autistic children have been told that if they don't alter their sexed bodies in the name of gender the only option is to kill themselves.

What's 'kind' about any of the above?

I'm just going to plonk this here, it's from another thread.

https://transcrimeuk.com/

If it was around that long ago, and I never encountered it, people probably assumed it was a typo, as I did at the start of this thread!

I could dress up in traditional native American clothing, rename myself to Pocahontas, use a shedload of fake tan, and rock up the "Young First Nation/Native American future leaders conference" and ask "nicely" to be let in; but given that I'm a Caucasian Celt from the British Isles ..... I would rightly be turfed out on my arse.

(And I wouldn't even be presenting the safe guarding risk that biological men in women and children's spaces represent).

Why do you think biological men who believe their "gender" (a rather vague concept) is female - usually based on regressive gender stereotypes - should access spaces for a class of people (a sex class in this case, rather than an ethnic one) they don't belong to???

Especially when that presents privacy, dignity, safety and safety guarding risks (which have been proven over and over with women & kids becoming victims of crimes (or even "just" being disadvantaged and put at bodily risk , as they are now in their sports).

Honestly, the male side of the trans movement just seems to be yet another intense expression of male entitlement....

"I feel like I'm a woman, let me do what I like and go where I like ... Pipe down and be nice".

Just the latest in a long long history of utter entitlement and expecting the lesser, support human of the species accept it, go along with it, submit and accommodate.

"I'm the important one here, I'm the main character, I get what I want ... What is wrong with you that you won't go along with that?" is the song playing constantly in their head.

Can you imagine trans men expecting to enter and use men's single sex spaces and being so incredibly entitled about it? I doubt it.
And then there's the risk of assault on them.

That's probably because these men who claim they are female, still think exactly like the men they are i.e. their underlying though process is "I'm a man, I can make you do what I want you to do" and "you'll not win if you assault me, which you would be extremely unlikely to do in the first place".

So convinced they're "female" yet they think utterly like men.

It's an honorific and for whatever reason she uses it, you AND your daughter have decided its ridiculous and therein lies the issue.
Plenty of people (men) didn't like Ms either and, even though it has been around a LOT longer, it wasn't as widely used when I wanted to use it.
Miss and Mrs are still used and they define whether you 'belong' to your father or your 'husband' when you think about it.

This teacher has an honorific that you don't 'agree' with so it sounds like you AND your daughter have been arses about it and there is no way that level of derision from your daughter isn't clear in the classroom. The 'boobs and female voice' and thinking it's "a load of nonsense" doesn't exactly point towards your dd making a 'mistake' lol

Everyone has the right to choose the honorific that they prefer. I hated Mrs and wish I'd been confident enough to not use it. But I didn't want to use Miss and not many in my area were using Ms yet. Had Mx been an option I would have definitely choses it but now, with that arseholes not letting it 'be' an honorific, I couldn't be bothered with the assumptions and vitriol and dismissal of me as an actual person. I'm a woman and Mx would be my preferred honorific is it hadn't been so maligned.

Your DD probably did it on purpose. Her judgy mcjudgy attitude probably shines through and she knows you'd love dressing the teacher down for having an honorific that offend you. Really, it's a non issue. Your dd will hopefully 'remember' the honorific next time 🤷‍♀️

It is not just the title. The OP has confirmed it is special pronouns as well.

Have you noticed people stop engaging with you after a while because of your aggressive approach?

Who are speaking on behalf of?

Lots of us agree 100% with what that poster has posted and are grateful for how articulate and incisive she is.
Even if her expression is energetic (aggressive is hyperbole) or heartfelt or earnest or however one might express it ..... Little wonder given the subject and the opinions she's countering.

Completely this.

Assuming it was an innocent slip then say nothing.

If it was intentional your DD was wrong.

My the teacher expressing their pronouns allows other to find their voice to do the same.

Absolutely this, I feel as you do and would never hide my opinion from my DC, about this or anything else.

And plenty of us don't agree with her but give up after a while because with her dominating the thread it's like banging your head against a brick wall.

It's nice that you think those things about her but I wouldn't give her any of those accolades personally, and calling energetic instead of aggressive just because you agree with her is ridiculous. Incisive isn't a word I would use either, she is taking points made to silly extremes to make posters look stupid which is a known logical fallacy when debating.

Tandora was very in incisive in my opinion
But as usual the Mumsnet posters went with the "Ignore the educated woman who actually knows what she's talking about and rally behind someone making hyperbolic points because they confirm your pre established beliefs" So rally away, it doesn't make you right or motivate people to want to argue with you anymore.

Your DD probably did it on purpose

Maligning a young girl who's trying to remember to use a ridiculous, never took off, honorific - which is extremely easy to mix up with the standard honorific .... While trying to cope with everything else .... Says everything.

No she wasn't . And the last thing we need is to encourage more attention seeking people to find their voices by exploiting children to support their delusions.

Lots of fancy words to condone male violence in what used to be women’s single sex spaces in the name of gender identity.

Tandora was very in incisive in my opinion

She's the opposite of incisive.

The point at which she (?) absolutely & earnestly declared that trans people are no threat to women or children was peak farce. Among many peaks.

I asked how she would like to be - or see her daughter in the position women and children have ended up due to biological males being in their single sex spaces (based on their gender declaration) - no answer.

How very convenient.

Isn't she also the person who thinks biological males should access single sex female spaces because they've dressed "like women", renamed themselves and asked nicely.

It's actually lol funny. Or it would be if the consequences for women aren't so serious.

it is also getting to the point that I am subject to personal attack for having the temerity of calling out issues with male violence in single sex spaces. I know that personal attacks are against site rules but I’m not going to report them because I think it’s important to let the tactics of activists remain visible to lurkers.

Remember my so called ‘aggression’ is asking questions .

anyone with a reasonable position would answer those questions.

instead a woman who asks questions about male entitlement is called aggressive.

yeh right.

educated woman who actually knows what she's talking about

This forum is full of educated women.

And she doesn't know what she's talking about.

Anyone who can state with such confidence that trans "people" (always the obscuring trans "women's" behaviour by bundling trans men i.e. biological women in with them) are no threat to women or children is in denial too deep to be worth engaging with.

She is the sort of person who would have argued that there would be no risks or issues with trans "women" being processed as women in the criminal.justice system ...... Dozens of raped female prisoners later; she is still arguing it. That is denial and delusional too deep to engage with. That is someone who doesn't give a fuck about women. Actual women, that is.

Absolutely. Interesting how a woman is deemed ‘aggressive’ when she is ‘speaking truth to bullsh*t’ (paraphrasing a la Bill Maher). And, in a very civil manner indeed considering the anti reality element. ‘People’, the royal we plucked out of thin air device.

speaking truth to bullsht*

Perfect.

She's been incredibly restrained, considering.

I'd have had the MN calling email 10 times over by now lol.

And plenty of us don't agree with her but give up after a while because with her dominating the thread it's like banging your head against a brick wall.

But that's how yourself and Tandora appear.

Do you truly not realise that?

And that's how I felt (and expressed) about her a couple of pages ago i.e. utterly pointless engaging with.

Seeing other posters refer to experiencing this from her across multiple threads confirmed it for me.

This is getting more and more common. I went to my GP surgery the other day, to see my doctor, and when I called her Mrs Smith she told me "it's Dr Smith".

I know full well she's a married woman and I'll be damned if I have to use a genderless title to refer to her. She is a woman and I'll not pretend otherwise.

then leaping to trans women being violent criminals violating women and their single sex spaces with no provocation

But any posts on that subject were in response to your assertion that trans people present zero threat to women and children.

Entirely due to your claim.

There's not a person with a functioning brain cell that could read that and not point out that many women and children have been the victims of horrific crimes at the hands of "trans women" entirely due to their increased or total access to them in what should have been their safe spaces .. due to gender self identification.