To think the tactics of CBR UK are disgusting? Trigger warning - pro life.

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

I've been seething since Saturday when I encountered the organisation CBR UK on one of the busiest parts of our town centre.

CBR UK are a fundamental pro-life organisation claiming to have the interests of women traumatised by abortion at heart. Actually their roots are in the US and are underpinned by fundamentalist Christian beliefs.

Their way of educating and supporting women is to display 6 x 8 feet technicolor pictures of the aftermath of abortion in full view of women and children to get their point across.

A look at their Facebook page will prove to you I am not making this up. They place a warning sign ahead if the images, and also warn that they live film their activities, but it's obviously lip service.

They hand out leaflets and try to engage people

I challenged one of the very smug beatific older woman and suggested they must really hate women, but no, it's because they love and want to protect us apparently. And "God" - which slipped out as I took my leave and she called out God bless you. To which I responded how dare you bring God into this - and her parry was - why do you hate him that much?

Anyway, I'm posting this to make you aware that you might come up against this while doing your Christmas shopping.

Whatever your views on abortion, (Mine are pro choice and pro it's noone else's Goddamn business except a woman and her doctor) can we agree that this kind of "awareness raising" is almost psychological terrorism and should not be on our high streets in such graphic forms?

Women who have been rated, suffered traumatic medical miscarriages and are possibly accompanied by curious children don't need this shit rubbed in their faces while doing their Christmas shopping - or at any time.

AIBU?

But I've also read threads where women regret their abortions and other posters tell them, "Don't blame yourself, it's the NHS's fault, they should have realised you were vulnerable and refused to allow you an abortion." If a woman regrets her decision, she has to take full responsibility for that. It's not the NHS's place to talk women out of abortions.

I have NEVER read that on here, or heard it anywhere else.
The whole idea of 'abortion regret' is just propaganda

What you’ve never read on here about women regretting abortions?? Absolutely hundreds of posts

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/pregnancy_choices/4760193-deeply-regret-abortion-need-a-hand-hold

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/pregnancy_choices/4886564-regretting-my-abortion

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/ethical_dilemmas/5108513-still-regret-abortion-18-months-after

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/pregnancy_choices/4879211-abortion-regret

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/pregnancy_choices/5143657-i-regret-my-abortion

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/pregnancy_choices/4988494-i-had-an-abortion-yesterday-and-i-regret-it

It is possible to be fully aware that the abortion you had was your least worst option at the time but still feel sad about it. Grieving in that situation is perfectly normal. That doesn't mean the abortion was the wrong thing to do. It also doesn't mean that you didn't give valid informed consent at the time or were in any way misled. It very much doesn't mean that giant placards of misrepresented abortions count as a valid form of providing information.

And on a population level, rates of abortion regret are very low. Nobody is saying it doesn't happen, but it's rare.

We don't care what you think, and fortunately nor does the law.

And just for those of a religious bent: the Bible has not one word to say on the subject of abortion, despite it being very much a 'thing' in ancient times too.

Well, except for this. It may use the word 'miscarry' but as it's induced by the potion administered by the priest it's an abortion.

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205%3A11-31&version=NIV

I've no idea how the fundamentalists try to spin that exceptionally unpleasant passage.

I think this is really well explained

It’s explained very clearly by doctors.
The first pill stops the heart. The second is a pessary often used when women have miscarriages and the foetus needs a little hand in expelling (sorry what a horrid word but don’t know how else to put it).

Why do you think it isn’t explained to women very clearly?

I can’t say I’ve ever known a woman to regret an abortion and I’ve known a lot get them.

Women are told to pass the foetus in the toilet where there’s a bowl, shut the lid and don’t look. They can also pull a cord if they need help. I can’t say I’ve ever read a thread where a woman wasn’t fully informed and supported about the procedure

I think so too. I rarely hear woman say it IRL. I read about it now and again but it’s ALWAYS on behalf of the anti-choice brigade which makes me worry what they are saying and doing to vulnerable young women

I hadn’t seen any of these but I don’t go on the pregnancy board I guess.

This is very sad to read, but it doesn’t make a case for withdrawing abortion from every woman.

Define justifiable please.

Abortion is a choice to deliberately kill a baby. An individual human being, with individuated genes, a human mother and father and a separate body.

Yeah the emotive language isn’t getting to anyone. Cry harder

It’s not a separate body though is it. It depends on a woman. A woman whose rights trump that of the foetus (not a human being either).

Can you explain exactly how other women having abortions affects you? I’ve asked other pro-lifers and no one can answer me.

Also I don’t think individuated means what you think it means.

And yet if you post a link to prolife charity offering care, support, housing, financial help, baby clothes etc. etc. people complain and the post is deleted on Mumsnet.

Can you name these charities? I'm not aware of any that will unconditionally financially and practically support a woman long term.

Not crying, why does a factual statement garner this reaction from you?

Individual - individuated genes (a unique individual)
Human -homo sapiens sapientis (same species as its mother and father)
Life -alive, from the moment of conception and will continue to grow, develop and live inside the womb and after birth into adulthood, unless killed by a condition or action.
The unborn child's body is inside the mother's body, but is separate, i.e. the two are distinct. A pregnant woman does not have eight limbs or two hearts, for example. If a pregnant woman dies, her baby can still be born alive; if an unborn baby dies, the mother can still live.
Abortion doesn't prevent women becoming mothers, it leaves them as mothers of a dead child, with zero support or counselling from the businesses that profit from abortion.
The fact that so many "pro choice" advocates deny the humanity of the unborn child is what affects me-women have been lied to.

EvilsElsasPetSnowman
You also say that the foetus is not a human being. Which species do you think it is?

I'll post the link separately so if its taken down you can see here the type of help they offer both pre and post abortion.

From their Home page
If you’re late and worried about being pregnant, considering abortion or you’ve just found out you’re pregnant and don’t know what to do, we can help. Maybe you’re pregnant and have nowhere to live or need some practical support. Or perhaps you’re dealing with the loss of a pregnancy or need to talk to someone after an abortion.
Our online services, free helpline and text-to-talk service mean you can easily access the emotional and practical support you need. Counsellors and skilled listeners are on hand to provide you with a safe space for you to explore your situation and decide what’s best for you.
From counselling to housing, training in parenting skills to free pregnancy tests, baby equipment to emotional support – whatever your pregnancy-related issue, help is just a click, text or phone call away.

From their Impact section

• In 2022, we helped 45,000 people who were facing pregnancy or pregnancy loss.
• Every month, Life gives emotional and practical help to 500-1,000 people affected by pregnancy or pregnancy loss.
• More than 12,000 mums and babies have been housed by Life. At any one time, we’re housing approximately 200 mums and babies in our network of 19 Life Houses.
• More than 1.25 million people have heard a presentation by Life about our work.
• Every month, 1,000+ people ask Life for a free pregnancy test.
• Tens of thousands of volunteers, supporters, and donors have joined together to create a world where no one faces pregnancy or pregnancy loss alone.

https://lifecharity.org.uk/our-services/pregnancy-matters/

The reason these links get removed will be because they are disgusting. They are manipulative and conceal their true purpose. They pretend to offer non-judgmental ‘space’ for women considering termination and do not immediately, clearly and overtly declare their anti-choice focus.

You would not know the true nature of this organisation from clicking through a few pages when you’re seeking help. And they know that. It’s deliberate. Their intention is to mislead.

The question one must ask is: why? If their cause is so benign, why hide it?

I think these types of pro-lifers are being disingenuous with their claims of standing up for the rights of the unborn. I personally believe it's really about punishing, as you also mentioned, women for having sex by forcing them to endure the consequence. You've had sex, they disapprove of, so you must pay in suffering in penance for offending their personal puritanical beliefs. The fact you might have been raped or it stands a good chance of one or both of you both dying is neither here nor there to them. Think they're taking the whole "In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee" (or variations thereof) shit way too far.

Me personally, I would like to throw paint over that big poster, hack their web presentation of the images and replace with alternates or shove the leaflet up their sanctimonious arses but I'd probably just complain to the council.

You actually want to hear more of those stupid statements?
You have a stronger stomach than me.

It's human, but not a person. Do you understand the difference? One of your skin cells is human. It's also not a person. It's alive, but is not sentient life, therefore it can't be harmed.

@Gingerlingerlonger

I personally believe it's really about punishing, as you also mentioned, women for having sex by forcing them to endure the consequence. You've had sex, they disapprove of, so you must pay in suffering in penance for offending their personal puritanical beliefs.

Exactly so. That's their real motive.

I suppose what irks me is that these organisations are motivated by the idea that abortion is wrong, so judgement is inherently implied. If the focus was simply on what a woman wanted, with no hint of religiously motivated coercion whatsoever, I'd be less suspicious.

I notice that this one won't deal with women suffering from addiction - is it because that's above their paygrade and not qualified ?

I'm going to look for "happy customers". I would imagine there must be scores willing to shout from the rooftops.