To think the tactics of CBR UK are disgusting? Trigger warning - pro life.

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

I've been seething since Saturday when I encountered the organisation CBR UK on one of the busiest parts of our town centre.

CBR UK are a fundamental pro-life organisation claiming to have the interests of women traumatised by abortion at heart. Actually their roots are in the US and are underpinned by fundamentalist Christian beliefs.

Their way of educating and supporting women is to display 6 x 8 feet technicolor pictures of the aftermath of abortion in full view of women and children to get their point across.

A look at their Facebook page will prove to you I am not making this up. They place a warning sign ahead if the images, and also warn that they live film their activities, but it's obviously lip service.

They hand out leaflets and try to engage people

I challenged one of the very smug beatific older woman and suggested they must really hate women, but no, it's because they love and want to protect us apparently. And "God" - which slipped out as I took my leave and she called out God bless you. To which I responded how dare you bring God into this - and her parry was - why do you hate him that much?

Anyway, I'm posting this to make you aware that you might come up against this while doing your Christmas shopping.

Whatever your views on abortion, (Mine are pro choice and pro it's noone else's Goddamn business except a woman and her doctor) can we agree that this kind of "awareness raising" is almost psychological terrorism and should not be on our high streets in such graphic forms?

Women who have been rated, suffered traumatic medical miscarriages and are possibly accompanied by curious children don't need this shit rubbed in their faces while doing their Christmas shopping - or at any time.

AIBU?

I was on the Feminist board once wherein there was a debate about a somewhat prolific male who id seen alot on YouTube. I had actually fallen victim to some of the propaganda he espoused. I still agree with one view point he has but I won't derail.

Anyway, more than one poster told me to fuck off. A few weeks later, the more I read, the more I debated, the more I saw regards the true agenda, the more I understood why people told me to fuck off. I was perfectly polite and didn't deserve a fuck off 🤷‍♀️😄.

But now I see. I understand why people get so passionate about these issues. It's fear. People are blindly walking us into Gilead if we don't open our eyes. Yes I know it sounds terribly dramatic. If I was forced to have a child right now because of an accident and inability to access an abortion, it would kill me, it really would. It would leave my current children without a mother. It would leave a new child forced into the world severely messed up. This is frightening. I feel this passionately for all those women who can't have the option to choose.

Of course it stops the heart. Women are told this really clearly before the even begun the procedure.

What about mental health issues from forced birth?

And don’t think all women who have abortions have MH issues and regret? Do you not trust women to make the right decisions for themselves? Does it take anti/choicers to go “Nope, no abortion for you, just in case you maybe might have a mental health issue later down the line”.

And I said when it comes to taking their pro life opinions into consideration they can fuck off.

Yes, we would all prefer for there to be no such thing as an unwanted pregnancy and for all pregnancies to be planned, wanted, successful and to excellent parents in good circumstances. Nobody argues with that. We would all like a perfect world.

Over in the real world, that doesn't happen and fortunately a safe, legal option exists for those who, having spoken to a professional at a clinic and received all due information, has decided that she wishes to take it.

The reason you can't actually answer any of the questions being put to you is because you are not actually advocating for wishing for a perfect world, or for giving information to women considering abortion. If you were, you wouldn't even feel a need to say anything because all that is a given. You are advocating for manipulative techniques to make women do what you think they should do, and answering the questions would lay that bare.

You suffer from zero sum thinking - it's very common with pro lifers. Just accept that the world is a complex place and that things go wrong for people. As for education - yes, this would be called 'sex education'. There is a strong link between doing it really, really well and having low rates of teenage/unwanted pregnancies and abortions. You seem rational about the need for sex education and prevention; we can agree on that, although abstinence education is not an effective preventative unless coupled with good education on safe sex and contraception. But many of the forced birther movement don't want good sex education.

Yes. And maybe people would then think twice before engaging in activities which might lead to either outcome.

We all know you're not seriously advocating trying to put women off having children by showing them graphic images of Caesareans, Annabella. Stop digging. We know what you think and we know why you think it.

Aaaah so you’re just anti women having sex then. You must fucking despise yourself so much.

It’s really weird that you want women to suffer so much and be punished for having sex. Are you unhappy?

You do realise perineal tears are often a result of inadequate care and not being a big slutty slut don’t you?

TBH the only information I needed to consent to my abortion (bearing in mind I was a traumatised 15 year old who had been sexually abused for years by a relative) was that it was OK for me to have one. That I'd be asleep for the whole thing. That I wasn't a baby killing monster.

I didn't need to know exactly what the procedure entailed, just that I wouldn't have to give birth to my abusers child.

Annabella is projecting because she feels bad she wanted an abortion. I suspect she may be projecting because she might even have had moments of regretting that decision (no judgment, parenting is hard). But that’s everything to do with Annabella and how she judges herself.

@pointythings after 27 yrs as a secondary teacher, the things I overheard the kids had got into over the weekend made my hair stand on end! I haven’t mentioned abstinence because a number of kids are already sexually active. It’s this end of reproduction we need more efforts to ‘wise them up’ about what could be the consequence.
The world is a very complex place. I wish that there was more support when a woman is pregnant for the ones unsure. And financial help.

I don’t respect your personal insults.

Gutted

I wish that there was more support when a woman is pregnant for the ones unsure.

And yet you don't believe a safe, legal option of abortion counts as support?

Women who are unsure and don't want abortions don't have to have them. Clinics do not exist to coerce unwilling women into abortions. They exist to offer information and an option for those who want it. You are free to enter a clinic and then leave without the procedure.

All the stuff about further education etc is a deflection. Nobody disputes that contraception and education are important. We are talking about what happens when, for whatever reason, those have failed and we have a potentially very vulnerable person who does not want to have the child. All your answers that do skirt this are based on effectively trying to make her do it, as evidenced by the fact that you dont consider the option of a safe, legal, informed termination to be "support".

You’re a teacher?!

That’s slightly alarming considering you’ve clearly bought into anti choice woman hating abortion myths. Let’s hope you don’t teach biology.

Hardly matters when you don't respect bodily autonomy.

I'm from the Netherlands originally - it's quite different over there. Sex education in the UK is actually very poor. When I was at school in the 80s, we spent an entire term in biology (3 lessons a week) on sex, reproduction, birth, relationships, the impact of porn, contraception, coercion and the differences between the male and female orgasm. We had exactly 0 pregnancies in my large secondary while I was there.

Telling teenagers full of hormones 'don't do it because you might get pregnant' is pissing into the wind. They're going to have sex if they want to, and I don't blame them. Sex is fun, it feels good, it bonds a relationship. So we teach them to minimise the risk of pregnancy and STDs as far as is possible, and if that doesn't work, we give them options for dealing with the consequences. Moralising is useless, we need pragmatism.

Spot on! When pro lifers say they want more support for pregnant women they mean “More ways which we can dissuade them for an abortion”. Not ACTUAL support

Was this in Liverpool? I saw similar over the weekend and was horrified. A pro-Palestine group were nearby and the bloke on the mic shamed them so much they put the huge pictures away and moved on.

@EvilsElsasPetSnowman Physics, also taught biology. As a professional I don’t bring personal opinion into it. I taught the curriculum- Reproduction.
Youre using personal insults again.

@pointythings i wish our curriculum was set up like yours. We teach what we are told - the National Curriculum. It’s the mechanics at ks3 roughly 8 hours.

You seem to think abortions aren’t in fact what they clearly and transparently are. That is worrying for someone who teachers biology to young people.

Aside from stopping the heart, which we knew (isn’t this a good thing?!) what else don’t we know about abortions?

@pointythings you make complete sense. I have a large group of female friends who went to ' good' schools, mixed backgrounds but certainly most of us were lucky enough to have a good education, access to information. We were not stupid, are not stupid.
Nearly all of us ended up having an abortion.

I'm a survivor of evangelical Christianity and I had personal experience with CBR. Someone in my church got involved with them and began shoving their material at everyone.

CBR is made up of many of the same people who are behind Christian Concern - the uncertified 'lawyers' who swoop in like vultures every time there's a legal challenge over withdrawing medical treatment from a child. It's all one big organisation.

The reason CBR get away with as much as they do is because they have sympathisers in local councils who they lean on to help them get permits or get out of trouble. And of course the nepotism factor - it helps when someone's Daddy is a peer or their cousin's a police officer.

It is like brainwashing - they go along to a presentation, get shown these horrifying images, then get bombarded with people telling them that children are being murdered and it's their job to help stop it. They genuinely believe that an abortion is the equivalent of a living baby or toddler being violently murdered and that they're the only ones who know the truth - including the dodgy biology they learn in their 'training'.

Thanks for asking - what is the support like after?